Thread: The Job Action Trailer 2.0 (Tanks)

Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

I get the sentiment but this is hyperbole. It's 1 attack. I welcome the change.

Frankly I'm more surprised people aren't more upset about aoes granting eye now. Which again, is another change I welcome and have wanted for years.

All I need is nascent flash being FULLY self targetable and my shadowbringer war wishlist have all come to pass finally with Endwalker.

Obviously we didnt arrived to that point yet, but we are on that road at full speed, hopefully we get a new FF mmo before that comes to pass

Originally Posted by Bhearil

new FF mmo before that comes to pass

what would a new FF MMO do its not like it would be anymore complex or anything unique if anything it would be so bare bones and basic to bring in a huge general audience to keep up probably still complain or find it boring.

Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

I really doubt you're going to be using all 3 during the opener or that using all 3 would be optimal. It's going to be 1 or 2 at most and you're just gonna be hitting onslaught once every 30 seconds like clockwork and always have at least 1 in the bank for gap closing.

I mean think about it. Every 60 seconds you're going to have ir, 3 cleaves, new attack, infuriate > inner chaos, new upheaval, combo attack AND TWO onslaughts?

That's a lot. I believe It's just gonna be just like the job action trailer. You're just gonna be weaving in an onslaught every 30 secs.

You fail to understand that you still want to use ALL your damage actions during burst windows. Even with IR getting 3 stacks for FC, and probably not giving guaranteed direct crits on your oGCDs, the party buffs are still important! So, you will NOT use it every 30s, but still during every party burst. Yes, you will store 1 charge if you know you need it in order to keep uptime, which then will be a higher dmg gain than using Onslaught during any burst, BUT--- this is the very same "problem" all other 3 tanks have to work with. Their optimal damage opener/rotations use all their gap closer charges! They are used for damage, but not for movement utility!

That's why we either asked for gap closers to NOT deal damage, and being pure utility, or give them some kind of ressource dependency.

Instead, they are simply going the "oh, the majority didn't mind the rechargeable gap closer, but some casuals are whining over Onlsaught, guess we make it more simple and similar" homogenisation-route! What I see the most is giving jobs more diversity and identity. And they did that with a new MNK and SMN rework, as well as build up actions diverse to most DPS jobs.

But oh... oh no, that can't be happening for tanks and healers, now can it? How are the DPS gonna have fun at this game, when tanks and healers are too distracted when they have to learn their different jobs first. Better rely one the generic 1 nuke, 1 dot formula for healers, and the very same gap closer and mitigation tools for every tank, just everything with different visuals!

This was the expansion I had hoped they would build up tanks and healers, after they were getting stripped with Shadowbringers. But they never increased their battle design staff, never held any communications with tank and healer players, but only with "concerned" DPS' like NIN and MNK.

StB tanks: 66% different or fairly unique mitigation tools, 1 no gap closer, 2/2 completly different gap closer, 95% unique dps rotations
EW tanks: 99% same or very similar mitigation tools, 100% identical charges, 100% identical tank stances, 66% identical dps rotation or dmg actions

Let's wait another expansion, and we might actually ask ourselves if we are playing PLD, DRK or WAR, when they play like each other. We already barely reached 100% for WAR and DRK!

I agree the tanks have become more similar, but regarding using all charges of the gap closing in a party buff window, we really don't know what that's going to be like yet because we don't know how the party wide buff durations will change, and they may change seeing as how they may have their cool downs reduced to 120s or less.

If the party wide buff durations shrink as a response to cooldown change, there simply may not be enough time to fit in 3 onslaughts in that party buff duration because we're going to be prioritizing ir>fc>new attack, infuriate > inner chaos, and upheaval over onslaught.

And ir is going to have charges which are spent it seems like, so it's going to be straight cleaves and nothing else during ir.

We really don't know yet.

And like I said, EVEN IF there is a dps loss for not dumping everything in the opening, it's FURTHER mitigated by the fact that there's more charges total.

And let's be honest, any dps variance from using 2 and not all 3 gap closers during the opening to align with the initial party buffs is inconsequential as the total number of gap closers used will be the same across the entire fight and any variance will be only the difference of ONE gap closer with or without party buffs.

So again, I don't think the forced choice between using a gap closer as dps or as a gap closer will be an issue in Endwalker.

It seems like the real issue you have is homogeneity amongst tanks but that's kind of a different issue. And yeah, on that front I kind of agree.

Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

My guess, it will still be on 30s recharge time, and used twice during the now univeral 60/120s burst windows. The 3 charges don't matter then, you just use 3 in your opener, and they 2 every 60s.

Assuming what you say is true, let me ask you this. Whats the difference between doing what you say (3 gap closers at opening and 2 every 60 seconds) and 2 gap closers at the beginning, 2 every 60 seconds AND then emptying whatever charged you have extra at the end of the fight?

The total number of gap closers used are going to be the same with the only difference being the 1 you saved at the beginning being within the buff window and the one you dump at the end assuming you couldn't manage to stick it in a party buff window.

This isn't even a dps issue man.

But yeah, I sympathize if you find the homogeneity of the tanks a turn off. Maybe they can differentiate them in other ways.

But for me, and I'm assuming others too, welcome this change.

Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

Assuming what you say is true, let me ask you this. Whats the difference between [...]

You use all 3 in your opener to empty your charges, you just use everything at your disposal to deal as much dmg as possible... that's all there is to it.
It may even be more optimal to go for 3 - 1 - 3 - 1 charge split every 60/120s, because every 120s there are more party buffs available. Means, opener: full burst, 60s semi-burst with 1 charge, 120s full-burst with all 3 charges.
Currently, PLD, GNB and DRK all use both gap closer charges every 60s during party bursts. They are all identical in that aspect. WAR will soon join them, too.

Why is this necessary? If WAR is missing oGCDs overall or during burst, why not add another action? WAR hotbar is already empty as it is, 1 more action wouldn't hurt!
MNK got 3 charges on a non-dmg charge! NIN already has 2 charges on Shukuchi, while SAM has a gap closer and disengage action for 10 Kenki! All melees have different gap closers! And there is also DNC dashes and BRD backstep.
Soon, all tanks will have the same! This is not right, Onslaught is perfect right now, do not change it into a braindead generic dmg button tied to movement!

(Depending on how much dmg Onslaught is gonna deal - most likely not more than 200 pot - the max gain from doing a 3-1-3 over 3-2-2 will be in range of 20 raid potency dmg, and no gain on personal dmg.)

WAR = Flippy boi
DRK = Purple boi
GNB = Slashy boi
PLD = Unlimited Blade Works

Originally Posted by Absurdity

3 charges won't do anything if it still has potency, you'll just burn all 3 charges during burst window now. Just like you currently use both charges on Gunbreaker for extra dps during No Mercy.

You can already cast Nascent Flash on yourself with no party members since 5.4

You wouldn't blow all onslaughts during ir burst window now because ir apparently is on charges which goes towards fell cleave or decimate. The only reason you'd burn all charges every time is to align it with party wide buffs, which again, (1) we don't know if buff durations are staying the same and if we can even fit 2 or 3 gap closers in it and (2) it mathematically makes no difference to use less than 3 charges during party buff duration and hold onto one, which you can dump later in the fight when it's apparent it won't be needed for gap closing.

And regarding nascent flash, I guess I should be more specific. I meant can you target yourself and get the nascent glint defense buff along with the healing buff? This is suggested in the video as nascent flash has a new lava crystal animation thing.

Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

You use all 3 in your opener to empty your charges, you just use everything at your disposal to deal as much dmg as possible... that's all there is to it.

Why is that "all there is to it?" Logically, mathematically it makes no difference to frontload the 1 additional gap closer in the beginning or using it towards the end of the fight, assuming that it the same buffs at the end of the fight as it does at the beginning.

And even if postponing the 1 additional gap closer causes it fall outside of party buff window, it makes no real difference to your dps.

Not sure why you're arguing so hard against my point, which if my assumptions about how ir works, eliminates any concern regarding having to dump all gap closers all the time for dps.