Tanking and Small Pulls

[kiagenwa]

I'm not leaving if I see someone single pulling, i ll just do with it, but that doesnt remove the fact that if they are in my expert roulette and not a first timer: they are just sucking hard. You underestimate the number of people with multiple jobs at lvl 80, even in -reclears- of extreme or savage that will still single pull, dont use cds or know half of their kit. If you are at lvl 80, you need to at least have an idea of what is expected from you.

To be honest, I leveled by myself to lv80 on multiple jobs and still don't know how to play expertly in my roles.


I'm not someone to play timidly as tank, tho.
Level 80 doesn't mean you have high skill.
Having the crown also doesn't mean you're an expert - I've had a party with a healer with mentor tag who seemed to have no idea how to do that-lv-47-dungeon and we wiped a few times (sprout tank).
I was surprised, though, at the confidence the tank was. We wiped but he still trust the healer and pull more next mob

[EmpyreanHelios]

To be honest, I leveled by myself to lv80 on multiple jobs and still don't know how to play expertly in my roles.


I'm not someone to play timidly as tank, tho.
Level 80 doesn't mean you have high skill.
Having the crown also doesn't mean you're an expert - I've had a party with a healer with mentor tag who seemed to have no idea how to do that-lv-47-dungeon and we wiped a few times (sprout tank).
I was surprised, though, at the confidence the tank was. We wiped but he still trust the healer and pull more next mob

Then I have to ask how you could level something to 80 and at not know how to play the class at a basic level. We're not asking anyone to be an expert, just be decent.

Ofc, those people could have leveled their jobs with main scenario roulette and crystal tower alliance roulette, but that is a separate issue.

[kiagenwa]

Then I have to ask how you could level something to 80 and at not know how to play the class at a basic level. We're not asking anyone to be an expert, just be decent.

Ofc, those people could have leveled their jobs with main scenario roulette and crystal tower alliance roulette, but that is a separate issue.

Well if you talk about basic stuff, ofc I can do.
But you talked about lv80 stuff, I'd say I might mess up a lot as a tank.

I may try when I get to ShB content. Now I'm still in HW content

[Aiscence]

To be honest, I leveled by myself to lv80 on multiple jobs and still don't know how to play expertly in my roles.


I'm not someone to play timidly as tank, tho.
Level 80 doesn't mean you have high skill.
Having the crown also doesn't mean you're an expert - I've had a party with a healer with mentor tag who seemed to have no idea how to do that-lv-47-dungeon and we wiped a few times (sprout tank).
I was surprised, though, at the confidence the tank was. We wiped but he still trust the healer and pull more next mob

As empyrean said, we aren't expecting people to be expert lol. being expert and using your job perfectly ask to go look on external site, discords etc and god we aren't putting the bar that high. I don't know the perfect rotation when I play tank, I would need to train a lot to be on point, but I know what my cd's are, where my 2 button of aoe are, that I need to press my inner release/requiescat/delirium/no mercy on cooldown and try to do whatever in it. If you fail but you still tried doing that: no one will care. But you don't know how much shit you can get by suggesting a lvl 80 tank to use a CD in a dungeon when they didnt use any yet lol.

[Onshinn]

I play by ear if the party have inexperience players but I will pull everything if you're already level 80. ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING. You're welcome to Block me in-game and out-game ASAP. Thank You.

[Jojoya]

For most of what you said it was about sprout and stuff, and those we are helping them. The problem is at max level.

Except we have sprouts at max level so it still applies. Being level 80 doesn't mean much when you've paid to skip 70 levels of content.

[ForteNightshade]

And you're assuming that everyone else in the group will be a veteran MMO player who knows exactly what they are doing. I'm leveling another alt right now and most of my dungeon groups have been all sprouts. I've had to coach many of them in what to expect. My Titan party went through 7 wipes before we got him down because they didn't know the fight and were having a hard time remembering what to do even though I gave them a couple of tips before we started (like avoid Landslide at all costs) and continued to give them tips as we progressed (when he disappears move to the edge but don't stand in red, always move immediately when you see something under you instead of trying to finish a cast first, get the player out of the gaol fast, etc).

But at least I've got the patience to help them through rather than rage quit a group because they aren't performing to some high standard.

Like it or not, players not being MMO veterans is a very real thing. It's even worse when they get convinced to boost their character by others so they get overwhelmed with 30+ skills all at once and they're trying to sort out what they're supposed to do with them. It's something that those of us who have been playing them for decades need to remember.

Notice how I specifically said 60+ and Shadowbringers content? Therefore, your example wouldn't apply because we're all beyond the "new player" criteria. While someone at level 60 may still be inexperienced, they should have a general understanding of how their job plays and the function of their role. For the sake of simplicity, we'll define "general" as knowing to dodge orange circles and use specific tank CDs like Sentinel and Rampart. This alone more than qualifies you to pull two packs. 4-6 mobs simply aren't dealing enough damage to remotely hurt a tank with those basic concepts grasped. Hell, it's borderline enough a WHM could spam Cure I and still keep them alive. Which speaks volumes to how severely nerfed much of Heavenswards' content is nowadays.

So not only does this completely throw out your example, but highlights just how simple "medium pulls" actually are. It doesn't require some great skill set but is almost a sort of litmus test: "Have you bothered to read your ability tooltops?"

If you choose to boost your character, the onus is you to practice your chosen job before partaking in higher level content. If that means spamming PotD, ARR dungeons or even FATEs, then go ahead. I leveled my first tank almost entirely through the Yo-kai way back when. I promptly took it to Stone Vigil and Darkhold because I didn't feel it fair to queue for Heavensward dungeons when I was a relatively new tank player. Those are my "high standard." Lofty and imposing, I assure you. Queuing into Holminster Switch with a Warrior you boosted just shows you have no consideration for your party mates nor their experience. You're essentially demanding they adapt to your playstyle. Since you didn't care about their experience. Why should they care about yours?

Except we have sprouts at max level so it still applies. Being level 80 doesn't mean much when you've paid to skip 70 levels of content.

And the solution is not to queue for Shadowbringers content until you've practiced at low levels first. Or use Trusts. Buying a jump potion isn't an excuse to be hopelessly clueless in Holminster Switch.

[Aiscence]

Except we have sprouts at max level so it still applies. Being level 80 doesn't mean much when you've paid to skip 70 levels of content.

If you paid to boost, it's your responsibility to be able to perform at the level needed before queuing into higher level thing. I boosted my drk during SB, I asked my friend to wait 10 minutes for me to read my skills, separate them in a "more or less way" hit a dummy just to see how the combos worked and we went in. Literally 10 minutes. But I can see you coming "yeah but you are a mmo vet": the only reason we are a vet in your eyes is because we care about not being a dead weight to others.

People wont even read 2 lines above theirs or hit google when they have a question, why would they even care about learning anything if people like you will defend them to the grave. Because if running through 2 groups of enemies, use a thing that says "reduce damage taken" and press 2 aoe skill (most dungeon only has 2 groups between each wall, hence this example) is considered "optimizing" or "not beginner friendly" what is? It's literally the same as putting a wooden circle block in a circle hole when you are 2yo: if there is more than 1 enemy, press the buttons that have a circle as an icon on your bars and press the ones with a shield or a wall as an icon, how thoughtful of the devs to make the dungeon gameplay affordable for a 2 year old.

When are they supposed to learn that if not during the leveling? How can you do lvl 70 to 80 without even reading your skills, sprout or not, there's no excuse.