I made an hour-long loredump video on the Ascians

[Cleretic]

https://youtu.be/umBwN0wQ_E0

Hi! I'm not over on these forums all too often (although I do intend to change that, it looks like a nice place), but I'm a big lore fiend, and I've occasionally put that to use over on the FFXIV subreddit. And when a topic got too big for a text post, I decided to dip into a whole new medium to try to explain it! But... well, it turned out 'everything we know about the Ascians' isn't a short recap by any means. So it ended up a pretty meaty project! I'm hoping it's not a dry watch, though, I tried to make it fun.

I know it's not perfect; I made a fair few mistakes that you don't know not to avoid until you know you make them. But I think it mostly turned out well.

Any feedback is welcome! As well as possibly ideas for what to do next; I'm hoping I can do a shorter one or two before Endwalker, since this was a lot of fun to make.

[ItMe]

You say in the video you usually post on Reddit?
Well thank you for sharing this here.
It took me awhile to get around to watching this (I wanted to do so in one chunk) but I'm glad I did (your info on the Sahagin priest, and on Gaia & Mitron alone made this worth watching for me). And yo you so aptly tackled that tricky The Conclave / The Twelve issue.

This was a surprisingly exhaustive video and very informative. Exactly the kind of ascian recap I was itching for pre-endwalker.
I'm def sharing this with my FC.

[Mansion]

Thanks for sharing this with us! I liked it a lot, very detailed without feeling too heavy, it's a great recap to prepare for Endwalker

One thing though, about Travanchet. My understanding was that he was a black masked Ascian, not one of the Convocation. I had posted about this here and some helpful fellows explained that he had been ruled out as a black mask, and that this was confirmed by the writers? Somebody can confirm that I'm sure.

I finally got some loose point about Eureka thanks to you, as I was too lazy to look them up by myself too!


Spoilers for 5.X:

Otherwise, looking at your list for what's to come in the game, I sure hope Ascians transition to a more minor role in FFXIV's future. With the end of the Hydealyn vs Zodiark. I'm sure they wil make a decent story from Fandaniel the Ascian on the loose, but I don't want each subsequent stories to be "well well well if it isn't an ascian plot device!", as Eden's finale was such a disappointment for me.

[Cleretic]

You say in the video you usually post on Reddit?
Well thank you for sharing this here.
It took me awhile to get around to watching this (I wanted to do so in one chunk) but I'm glad I did (your info on the Sahagin priest, and on Gaia & Mitron alone made this worth watching for me). And yo you so aptly tackled that tricky The Conclave / The Twelve issue.

This was a surprisingly exhaustive video and very informative. Exactly the kind of ascian recap I was itching for pre-endwalker.
I'm def sharing this with my FC.

I mostly hang around the Reddit because it's got an app I can check at work, honestly. I am liking here now that I've been here for a bit, I just can't check it as easily!

And yeah, there's a lot of parts of the whole Ascian thing (a lot of ongoing parts of the story, actually) where we can definitely start drawing some really interesting and plausible connective lines, but a lot of people neglect the fact we don't have the means to finish drawing those. And 'the Convocation are the Twelve' is a perfect example of it; it sounds good enough that I could believe a theory about it, but there's not enough actual facts behind it to just say it and call it there. You need to do more homework to get there than just saying it, at least right now!

[Cleretic]

And apologies on the double post here, the character limit caught me off-guard!

Thanks for sharing this with us! I liked it a lot, very detailed without feeling too heavy, it's a great recap to prepare for Endwalker

One thing though, about Travanchet. My understanding was that he was a black masked Ascian, not one of the Convocation. I had posted about this here and some helpful fellows explained that he had been ruled out as a black mask, and that this was confirmed by the writers? Somebody can confirm that I'm sure.

I finally got some loose point about Eureka thanks to you, as I was too lazy to look them up by myself too!


Spoilers for 5.X:

Not surprised I taught some people about Eureka! I'm known in my friend groups for loving it more than anyone, to the point where one person said that I'm the only source they'd trust to talk at length on it.

I don't think Travanchet's actually been talked about by the developers, at least not as far as I've seen. So he hasn't been ruled out as a black or red mask, I just think he's a red mask because of dramatic appropriateness. If nothing else, because he's both the longest-running ongoing subplot now, and that he's tied to one of the most popular bits of content in the entire game. If he wasn't originally a red-masked Ascian of import, he's earned a retroactive promotion to being one.

As to your spoiler talk!

I'd personally be into them taking a back seat for a while after Endwalker. I think the 'surprise, it was Ascians' reveal can really cheapen things in a lot of places; personally I lost a lot of interest in the Garlean Empire once we learned they were Ascian-made. Hell, I've seen it ruin things for people doing plots they AREN'T in--I know someone who basically completely dismissed all of Bozja's storytelling about very human-level failures, betrayals and oppression because he was just so used to the 'secret ultrawizard puppetmasters' plot twist that even when the plot was done he was still expecting it.

That said, I think it would be really neat if we kept some around and then sprinkled them in on side content every so often after Endwalker. Partly because I was actually rather impressed when they used Eden to tell a story with them that didn't boil down to one-note megalomania (I actually think Eden was a better Shadowbringers ending than 5.0's or 5.3's), but also because I think FFXIV's story is at its best when it sticks around after the climax and asks 'okay, now what'. I want some Ascians to still be around so we can hear their answer to that after Endwalker.

[Mansion]

I don't think Travanchet's actually been talked about by the developers, at least not as far as I've seen. So he hasn't been ruled out as a black or red mask, I just think he's a red mask because of dramatic appropriateness. If nothing else, because he's both the longest-running ongoing subplot now, and that he's tied to one of the most popular bits of content in the entire game. If he wasn't originally a red-masked Ascian of import, he's earned a retroactive promotion to being one.

Found my original post and see below the replies : https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5500909

Travanchet specifically, though, was confirmed by Koji to be a black-mask. Travanchet isn't even the Ascian's name, it was the dead Elezen's real name. Koji wouldn't confirm the reaper was Lahabrea that day, probably because they were still planning to use it in the end of 3.0, which was upcoming at the time.

Hope Moose will be okay with me quoting his reply here!

In any case, even Travanchet being mentioned by someone else to explain whose orders he was following would be enough. I don't really see this as a loose plot point, because nothing came out of it since Alexander, (unless we are heading towards a big Endwalker surprise, but I think we have enough on our plate right now).

[kaynide]

This is awesome. I was going through Anonymoose's post and going deep down my own rabbit hole. Will watch it all and compare notes!

Edit: I'll copy/paste notes from my big batch of notes as they come up in your video. ... my notes include a lot of speculation obviously.

[kaynide]

@11:00ish, some thoughts on the Convocation of 14 being the Eorzean 12:

My assumptions:

• The Ascians are gender fluid as they can swap bodies.
• I believe we have inaccurate information historically; eg. people might have incorrectly perceived certain relationships of the gods (siblings/lovers etc).
• By the time the Gods were established, I believe Elidabus was not acting as a "God", but as the Warrior of Light on other shards and/or operating under other rules as a primal.
• I believe the twin gods of Nald-Thal are actually two separate Ascians. (so 13 of 14 Ascians make up the 12 Gods)
• The FF12 stuff is ok for a reference, but a lot of it is simply opposite or unrelated (as you said).

So who's who and why? (imho)

• Lahabrea is Berygot, the smith/creator (of summons)
  He is noted to be proficient in fire, despite the FF12 ice reference.
  His FF12 name "Abyssal Celebrant" means a performer of rites.
• Emet-Selch is one of Nald'Thal, the god of Commerce and Overseer of the Underworld
  Hades is an obvious fit, but the FF12 info fits well (zodiac is Gemini)
• Pashtarot A wild guess I would say Menphina.
  This is mostly due to the FF12 association with Zeromus (FF4 reference to moon) and gravity.
  No one else really fits thus far; I'm pretty sure we'll encounter him on the Moon. (FF4 reference).
• Mitron is Llymlaen.
  Mitron was noteworthy for their creation of sea creatures.
• Emmerololth is Thaliak.
  This is mostly due to the strong FF12 water/Aquarius connection.
  I also think she had infiltrated Sharlayan/part of the creation of it and thus had knowledge on Eureka.
• Nabriales could be Althyk.
  He has time/space magic in his actual battle…
  But Gaia also uses certain time magic so it could just be an Ascian thing in general.
• Logrif is Nophica.
  Yes, this is low hanging fruit, but it fits more if we see Logrif and Mitron being very close, but not necessarily lovers; potentially sibling-like.
• Halmarut is the other half of Nald'Thal.
  His FF12 information has him as an Arbiter/Judge/Scales imagery. This fits the actual symbology of Ul'dah/Sil'dih too well.
• Deudalaphon I believe is Halone.
  This is a flip on his FF12 name ("The Benevolent" to become "The Fury")
• Fandaniel is Rhalgr
  I believe he too is a flip on his FF12 name ("The Protector" to "The Destroyer")
• Unaccounted Ascians: Altima, Igeyorhm.
• Unaccounted Gods: Nymeia, Oschon.
  

[kaynide]

@26:00ish (Elidabus)
Of note, the FF12 connection is with the zodiac Ophiuchus. There is a real-world star in this constellation named "Sabik", as in "The Heart of Sabik".
We don't have anything solid to support this, but I believe "The Heart of Sabik" is an Ascian invention meant to replicate what Elidabus is to Zodiark. No idea what that might mean beyond that.

Will pick this up tomorrow to finish; it's good fun!

[Cleretic]

@11:00ish, some thoughts on the Convocation of 14 being the Eorzean 12:

Personally, my picks for 'how to shave the Fourteen down to the Twelve', if I were to make those guesses. I personally don't believe in this theory very hard, but my angle is more that the Twelve would be a very externalized view of these figures, making claims from a distance and not having all the facts right.

1. Elidibus is the exclusion. He was always sort of running counter to the rest of the Ascians anyway, so if an external source were to quantify them, Elidibus is definitely the one they'd be most likely to skip over.

2. Nald'Thal is actually Loghrif and Mitron. I agree that the Ascians are probably some degree of gender-fluid, and historians talking about both 'things ancient people believed' and 'things ancient people did' are extremely bad at recognizing non-heteronormative relationships. I'd find it extremely unsurprising to find out that a couple observed to be same-gender eventually went down in the history books as brothers.

Although personally, the theory I most believe in with the Twelve is that they're akin to how real-world pantheons form: unrelated local tales and deities that gradually got collated under the same umbrella by history and probably imperialism. So sure, one is Azem (possibly as depicted in Far Eastern artwork, hence the Azim link), but they're alongside stuff like Rhalgr as a heavily fictionalized take on Emperor Xande, Nymeia as the patron deity of the city of Nym, and Althyk as an allegorical story about the lessons of history that got its context completely forgotten. Maybe I just really liked the per-fight framing of the Omega raids, though!