Stop the WoWificaton (ui mods)

[Larirawiel]

I think the bigger problem is the toxicity that WoW players bring. Had someone tell the Tank in my group to KYS as well as single them out as what wiped us when it wasn't really his fault. It was a normal story trial btw.

The most toxicity i had experienced came from veteran FF14 players, sorry. They are usually very impatient and start with rants when the leveling dungeon takes too long etc.

Cheers

[Hoehenflug]

It's still funny to me so many people are argueing in favor of addons. The best argument is, 'if it doesn't effect you, why care?'. Cause uhm.. empathy? Concerns? Ever heard of places like Yemen?

Let's see how addons are already influencing FF14:

Auto-silence in PvP
Undercutting
Skip Cutscences
Use of addons 'recommended' in discords
Visual upgrades+ Debuff timers
Meters used in group content to judge people / easily focus MVPs in PvP
Influencers advertising them unregulated
Players feeling cheated out for following the TOS
PS4 players having access to none
etc.

If your friend started FF14 today, would you really recommend the PS4 version with a straight face? How do you explain this to loyal PS4 customers?

I guess some people really miss their WoW ilevel and parser mess. Please go back to the game u ruined.

Again, there's a difference between use and advertising them (for profit). The later should be permabanned imo, but seeing as some of them even got invitations to the media tour, I guess it's time to mod away.

[MilkieTea]

It's still funny to me so many people are argueing in favor of addons. The best argument is, 'if it doesn't effect you, why care?'. Cause uhm.. empathy? Concerns?

Let's see how addons are already influencing FF14:

Auto-silence in PvP
Undercutting
Skip Cutscences
Use of addons 'recommended' in discords
Visual upgrades+ Debuff timers
Meters used in group content to judge people
Influencers advertising them unregulated
Players feeling cheated out for following the TOS
PS4 players having access to none
etc.

If your friend started FF14 today, would you really recommend the PS4 version with a straight face? How do you explain this to loyal PS4 customers?

I guess some people really miss their WoW ilevel and parser mess. Please go back to the game u ruined.

Again, there's a difference between use and advertising them (for profit). All of these people should be banned imo, but seeing as some of them even got invitations to the media tour, I guess it's time to mod away.

UI mods do none of those things. UI mods are graphical changes that do not affect gameplay save for making it more accessible to those who necessitate graphical changes. UI mods =/= bots, UI mods =/= parsers (though some can contain parsers, they are not themselves parsers), UI mods =/= cutscene skipping (actually, there's no addon that skips cutscenes, and as far as I'm aware, what people are doing is force closing the game during prae/castrum. If you are referring to players not getting cutscenes in regular dungeons, trials etc., there is a setting in-game that allows for this.)

ACT (which is the defacto parser) is a glorified excel spreadsheet. What it does automatically you can, also, do automatically through the use of excel macros. As Yoshi P. has himself stated: It does not affect numbers, does not interact with the game, and only reads logs and outputs them using a built-in calculator. Using excel with macros, you can do the same thing.

However, ACT as a program is not a UI mod. This post is about UI mods.

[Hoehenflug]

...

Yes, but Ui mods are mods. It's like saying 'we are talking letters here, not words'. Especially if you advertise UI mods and Undercuttings Addons in the same sentence or video. Also modified visual markers are part of the UI ( see Debuffs etc.). I wonder how many of the carry vendors, flippers and gold sellers use mods 'because they just want a different UI'.

[ForteNightshade]

Yes, but Ui mods are mods. It's like saying 'we are talking letters here, not words'. Especially if you advertise UI mods and Undercuttings Addons in the same sentence or video. Also modified visual markers are part of the UI ( see Debuffs etc.). I wonder how many of the carry vendors, flippers and gold sellers use mods 'because they just want a different UI'.

They're simply making excuses and attempting to conflate two very different things as thought they're the same. Just as you are now. Visual mods, be it texture upgrades or UI addons, aren't the same thing as automated undercutting bots. Both attempt to do completely different things and have an entirely different purpose. Conflating them is just being disingenuous.

[Hoehenflug]

They're simply making excuses and attempting to conflate two very different things as thought they're the same. Just as you are now. Visual mods, be it texture upgrades or UI addons, aren't the same thing as automated undercutting bots. Both attempt to do completely different things and have an entirely different purpose. Conflating them is just being disingenuous.

RE: That's besides the point.

Old influencers didn't use mods in respect of SE policies
People used mods moderately in silence like Parsers, Undercutters, etc., the occasional grey zone abusers like Housing

New influencers (incidentally Hardcores that destroyed WoW) come and gain money by A) disrespecting SE B) disrespecting old content creators C) making 'innocent' mods more accessible
More people will share A) the influencer and B) the mods
More people use mods and get familiar with modding
More people now know how to use harmful mods ( Auto-silencer, Bots) and will use them,
actually those are even normalized already (s. Fashionista)
More players, especially PS4, will get excluded ( no-parsers etc)
The marketboard will turn into the same botf est as in WoW
YP will need to answer because he trusted people to be moral about it

Mod advertisers are literally hurting mod users too. And UI is a mod.

Funny how the most unfounded shit gets 2 upvotes for being objectively wrong. Not talking about you. You prob just didn't read my previous post. Anyway.

[Vahlnir]

New influencers (incidentally Hardcores that destroyed WoW) come and gain money by A) disrespecting SE B) disrespecting old content creators C) making 'innocent' mods more accessible

The hardcore crowd has been using these things long before the sudden surge of WoW players. It also wasn't the "hardcores" who destroyed WoW. The development team did that. You'd be hard pressed to find a sizeable group of hardcore players that are actually happy with the game right now. I'm not defending the use of mods (and neither does SE, officially), but WoW players didn't start anything here. Get out with that nonsense. If you were trying to make a point, it fell flat on its face the moment you brought this into the mix.

[ForteNightshade]

RE: That's besides the point.

Old influencers didn't use mods in respect of SE policies
People used mods moderately in silence like Parsers, Undercutters, etc., the occasional grey zone abusers like Housing

It's cute you just... copy/pasted your post. For the sake of argument, let's dissect some of this.

"Old influencers" have been using mods and addons long before WoW players came into the fold. You're entirely naive to believe otherwise. In fact, it's SE complete lack of enforcement on any of their policies that emboldened the bot crisis. More on that in a bit though.

All these third party programs you've seen were readily available in Stormblood. And some new ones were developed in early Shadowbringers.

More people now know how to use harmful mods ( Auto-silencer, Bots) and will use them

Bot programs are used because SE does absolutely nothing about it. They were prominent long before the WoW incursion. Better yet, none of them have been shown publicly by any streamer. What's gained them notoriety is SE's own complete incompetence or willful ignorance when it comes to actually handling bots. Several people have openly acknowledged they bot because, "It's not like SE will ban me lol." Texture mods and Cactbot have nothing to do with Market board bots. SE is entirely to blame for their growth.

More players, especially PS4, will get excluded ( no-parsers etc)

This does not happen. And it pretty much never has. It's the boogeyman some casual players point to as an excuse for why they can't do Savage. There are World First players that either play on console or use a controller. Years ago, people insisted ACT would lead to the exclusion of console players yet it never happened. Then triggers was supposedly going to do them in. Still never happened. Texture mods were next and nope. All of these have been around for years yet console players still haven't been excluded. Some minor aesthetic addons/QoL will have the same impact: i.e., none whatsoever.

[Reap00]

RE: That's besides the point.

Old influencers didn't use mods in respect of SE policies
People used mods moderately in silence like Parsers, Undercutters, etc., the occasional grey zone abusers like Housing

New influencers (incidentally Hardcores that destroyed WoW) come and gain money by A) disrespecting SE B) disrespecting old content creators C) making 'innocent' mods more accessible
More people will share A) the influencer and B) the mods
More people use mods and get familiar with modding
More people now know how to use harmful mods ( Auto-silencer, Bots) and will use them,
actually those are even normalized already (s. Fashionista)
More players, especially PS4, will get excluded ( no-parsers etc)
The marketboard will turn into the same botf est as in WoW
YP will need to answer because he trusted people to be moral about it

Mod advertisers are literally hurting mod users too. And UI is a mod.

Funny how the most unfounded shit gets 2 upvotes for being objectively wrong. Not talking about you. You prob just didn't read my previous post. Anyway.

The man has a good point. There are several people that stream these mods daily on twitch. They also provide links to users on how to add them to their own game. This is against the ToS and they are disrespecting SE and their wishes.