Stop the WoWificaton (ui mods)

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

How can it be that virtually every other online game out there has a way to detect and ban people using third party software? Of course there is a way for them to know. They have just thus far chosen not to know.

Its not exactly ethical for them to use most anti-cheat software. That stuff scans your entire pc, opens up lots of security holes, and can cause so many issues.


These are some of the reasons they haven't.

[MediArgentum]

Its not exactly ethical for them to use most anti-cheat software. That stuff scans your entire pc, opens up lots of security holes, and can cause so many issues.


These are some of the reasons they haven't.

There are those kinds of anti-cheats as well, sure, but those aren't the only way to scan for 3rd party tools/mods from the user. For instance, you can simply scan RAM and active CPU processes. That alone would be enough to know if you're running ACT or what have you, and it would even pick up on all of your nude skins/textures too (among other mods, UI mods or not). And all without scanning a shred of your HDD/SSD.

SE doesn't even do that much though, hence the current Fight Club rule with modding.

[Larirawiel]

For instance, you can simply scan RAM and active CPU processes.

Ohhh, it is not that easy. This is the reason why many anti-cheat-programs work like malicious rootkits. If the memory-scan-tool does not run with some special permissions then it is easy to hide processes from it. And look at the typical cheat-tools or ACT. They all need to run with Administrator rights. And if a tool runs with Administrator rights then it can do literary everything, even knocking out anti-cheat-tools. So the anti-cheat-tool need even more permissions than the Administrator so it cannot be disabled by a cheat-tool.


Cheers

[Chawan]

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That would end up a game of cat and mouse as all of those things are easily sidestepped by simply making file modifications to be something the anti cheat isn’t looking for. Kind of like what a lot of current anti cheat has to deal with. They have to constantly be scannin background processes looking for matches of known entered files, file sizes and so forth. They would also have to keep up with the modders make sure they know of the latest versions and break them. Modders often work faster and sometimes turns in to a fun game for them. And if you tune these anti cheat too much they can false flag totally normal processes. It’s kind of annoying to have to disable and sometimes completely uninstall security features on my machine just so i can play a game. I had to deal with that garbage during the days of phantasy star universe..

Besides wasn’t there talk about programs like what they would need being illegal or something where they are, or in some parts of the world?

[Sebazy]

OK, muppets. There is so much jokes here that I have no idea where to start from.

Oh this is going to be fun. I haven't done one of these in a while.

- Most games DO NOT provide you calculated data of your DPS, even your very special and important WoW does not do that, you need Add On even there to do it.

And yet, most games do a far better job of at least giving you some idea of how much you are doing so you can try and figure it out yourself. Precise timestamps, verbose and clear damage feedback, the ability to not have multiple sources of damage merged into one figure etc. WoW had all of these. FFXIV didn't. Go watch a 2.x-3.x SMN PoV and point out where they can keep a tabs on their dot damage. Spoiler: They couldn't. It wasn't even shown in the combat log. It was shown merged in with the Scrolling Text on screen and that was it. GL making any sense of that in any actual content that wasn't the Summerford training dummy.

- ToS are clear about third party tools and crying like baby or not, does not change ToS.

The ToS is also equally clear on calling people muppets FYI. Your point? Any MMO has to have an overeaching ToS to cover their backs. Obviously the extent they chose to enforce it can vary immensely.

- There are ways for SE to find out if you are using third party tools ingame and I belive they do not because for most of the years the community was pretty careful to not allow tools that ruin other players expirience, but that started to change and we may lose any possibility to use ANY kind of modifications because of it if SE decides to go with the normal approach for modern online games and add anti cheat.

This is being brought up in a UI thread because of Ultimate shenanigans in a fight that a tiny minority will ever clear regardless of how much handholding is given. Shouldn't you be raging about gathering, crafting, leveling, fate grinding, eureka farming bots instead? They have a far more significant impact on the game as a whole than anything this thread is addressing.

- You DO not need, never needed and never will need DPS metter to create rotations, become good or whatever in FF. What you need is brain to read the tooltips and dummy. If you are not sure between few rotations "Stone, Sky, Sea" have a great challanges to check what rotation works best.

Again, go look at SMN in ARR and tell me you could optimise that beyond 'muh fester crits' without someway to accurately understand what your dot damage was. Dots were much more important for many jobs back then and SE set the bar by making it comically difficult to track what they were doing.

- All battles are completed by minimum two groups in Square enix without any third party tools before release, so the argument that you need them to complete anything in FF is a childish joke. I was personally in a group cleaning savages on Minimal Item Level for two years and you can imagine how many "data mining" I was using to clear content on PS4, we never had a battle that we were unable to clear.

Yoshida has clarified how internal testing is handled many times over the years. I suggest you go have a read. And grats I guess? Savage doesn't even come close to the the complexity and precision that this Ultimate seems to require, especially not the jokes we've had in the last few expansions.

Go on and cry like a babies about your addons for a bit longer and SE will end up with anti cheat and you will forget about all your NSFW mods too

Or maybe SE could actually spend some of the 200 mill earnings to actually improve their UI and offer players some basic level of feedback so that they don't feel so obligated to step foot onto the slippery add-on slope

[Grebeny]

And yet, most games do a far better job of at least giving you some idea of how much you are doing so you can try and figure it out yourself. Precise timestamps, verbose and clear damage feedback, the ability to not have multiple sources of damage merged into one figure etc. WoW had all of these. FFXIV didn't. Go watch a 2.x-3.x SMN PoV and point out where they can keep a tabs on their dot damage. Spoiler: They couldn't

Spoiler, you don't need to, the system was easy "if skill with Cooldown is not pressed, you do bad job" too hard for you?

The ToS is also equally clear on calling people muppets FYI. Your point?

Muppets is fluffy, not offence, and we play FF, most of the people are fluffy around.

This is being brought up in a UI thread because of Ultimate shenanigans in a fight that a tiny minority will ever clear regardless of how much handholding is given.

- Allows you to see player hitbox
- Can automatically find and relay hunt mobs
- Condenses combos to one button
- Allows macros to be daisy-chained
- Allows mouseover targeting without macro delay
- Gives player realtime information about mobs in PoTD
- Shows different damage types visually (magic/physical))
- PvP auto targeting of Ninja when LB is done.
- Auto heal when someone HP droppes bellow given %.
- Auto targeting enemies bellow 50% and auto LB on them with ninja.

And yes, bots are bannable, they are getting banned all of the time, the difference is nobody stand up for them as a white knight pretending they don't understand the ToS to protect them.

Again, go look at SMN in ARR and tell me you could optimise that.

Especially when DPS metters don't actually provite perfect information on the matter too. The DPS you provide to the party with your personal buffs is really poorly calculated, how do you sleep with this information?

Savage doesn't even come close to the the complexity and precision that this Ultimate

Actually savages and Ultimates are not that different on difficulty if we are talking about DPS specifically. Ultimates are hard because you need to survive 15+ minutes without doing mistakes.

Or maybe SE could actually spend some of the 200 mill earnings to actually improve their UI

Lazy players will go to DPS metter always even after "improving" the 100% customizable UI. If you want "basic" feedback, just turn on only your numbers on enemy hit. Players were not feeling obligated to use addons, but as someone earlier said, when some start using it, others follow. "World first race" grouos on first day were not using logs, except few. In the next days more and more started, because Yes, exactly, ADVANTAGE. There are party finders with "logs" in the name, suggesting that they will not take players without DPS metter installed.

[Sebazy]

Spoiler, you don't need to, the system was easy "if skill with Cooldown is not pressed, you do bad job" too hard for you?

You're missing the point. ARR SMN literally had no idea of their damage. Were they worth bringing vs another BRD or even a Melee? You couldn't tell. They were flying blind in actual content especially given so much of it was multi target back then.

Muppets is fluffy, not offence, and we play FF, most of the people are fluffy around.

Pop into British Walkabout and call a few people muppets, let me know how that goes for you.

- Allows you to see player hitbox
- Can automatically find and relay hunt mobs
- Condenses combos to one button
- Allows macros to be daisy-chained
- Allows mouseover targeting without macro delay
- Gives player realtime information about mobs in PoTD
- Shows different damage types visually (magic/physical))
- PvP auto targeting of Ninja when LB is done.
- Auto heal when someone HP droppes bellow given %.
- Auto targeting enemies bellow 50% and auto LB on them with ninja.

And yes, bots are bannable, they are getting banned all of the time, the difference is nobody stand up for them as a white knight pretending they don't understand the ToS to protect them.

On the list, precisely, all of those things are far far more impactful on the game as a whole than the number of groups that are going to clear DSR and wave around a few shiny weapons this year. On bots being bannable, eeehhhhh I mean sure but outside of RMT spam who actually really gets banned for it? Look at Eureka bots or go right as far back as Northern Thanalan Fate bots. Are they really getting banned all the time? I don't see it, never have.

Especially when DPS metters don't actually provite perfect information on the matter too. The DPS you provide to the party with your personal buffs is really poorly calculated, how do you sleep with this information?

Doesn't matter if it's imperfect when it's the only readily available info sir. As for really poorly calculated? Please cite your sources on that one.

Actually savages and Ultimates are not that different on difficulty if we are talking about DPS specifically. Ultimates are hard because you need to survive 15+ minutes without doing mistakes.

Sure, I'm in agreement that Ultimates aren't about the DPS checks, but they are still a sterner test of things than Savage even with the trend of untargetable intermissions.

Lazy players will go to DPS metter always even after "improving" the 100% customizable UI. If you want "basic" feedback, just turn on only your numbers on enemy hit. Players were not feeling obligated to use addons, but as someone earlier said, when some start using it, others follow. "World first race" grouos on first day were not using logs, except few. In the next days more and more started, because Yes, exactly, ADVANTAGE. There are party finders with "logs" in the name, suggesting that they will not take players without DPS metter installed.

If you think day one groups weren't using act you are sorely mistaken lol.

And basic feedback isn't very useful when a good portion of the data is either missing or unreadable. Simply knowing how big your crits can get isn't really the whole story.

[Grebeny]

You're missing the point. ARR SMN literally had no idea of their damage. Were they worth bringing vs another BRD or even a Melee? You couldn't tell. They were flying blind in actual content especially given so much of it was multi target back then.

You litterally don't need your exact number to know if you perform well. You just need to know you do your job well and again, dummy if needed "Stone, Sky, Sea" if really concerned. Simple as that.

Are they really getting banned all the time?

As far as I am aware they ban them in batch from time to time, so you are right here, they don't do it all the time unfortunately.

Doesn't matter if it's imperfect when it's the only readily available info sir. As for really poorly calculated? Please cite your sources on that one.

The writter's own claim? Not good enough for you? Maybe you know how well it works better from the people that write the tool, I don't know... You can send me video of you playing without DPS meter, or even battle logs on the screen, I will tell you how good/bad you perform and if I am wrong, we agree that you don't get any info except your meter.

But let me explain you how you ACT works (obviously you have no idea). It takes the info from the logs and use formulas to simulate expected behavior, for example the dots of the summoner were entirely simulated in the meter, so their accuracy may be pretty good sometimes and totally on another planet other times. Same goes with buffs/debuffs, There is no info like "dragoon did 10 000dmg +1 000 trick attack dmg. All of this info is simulated by the ACT too. If you care about your personal performance, I will say it again, if you want to perform well, simple math (with no numbers involved)
Resource overcap = bad performance
CD stay unused = bad performance
Use weak abilities when you have stronger options = bad performance
OGCD skills in GCD window = bad, just don't.
Avoid the four mistakes I just said, you are ma' man, I don't need numbers to know it!!!

Things that ACT have no idea of, but they actually improve performance of players quite a lot are proper usage of Feint (many people claim you should eat food for survivabily instead of using this really cool skill), bloodbath, second wind, shade shift, revives from red mages and the list goes on and on. Because wasting time of healers to heal you, or tanks to give you extra def is wasting the party's overall dps for the sake of you're missunderstanding of how the game works, just because you can't read tool tips, but just dps meter...

If you think day one groups weren't using act you are sorely mistaken lol.

As I said, less groups were using it day one, more were using it day two, same for other addons too (that I believe are more likely to be the reason SE are angry).

[Saraide]

Besides wasn’t there talk about programs like what they would need being illegal or something where they are, or in some parts of the world?

That part of the statement always felt like an excuse to me. Tons of games force you to follow their strict anti cheat programs and are available world wide. Not that I'm in favor of starting that arms race in ff14 but I have no doubt in my mind that SE could legally do it if they really wanted to.

[Chawan]

That part of the statement always felt like an excuse to me. Tons of games force you to follow their strict anti cheat programs and are available world wide. Not that I'm in favor of starting that arms race in ff14 but I have no doubt in my mind that SE could legally do it if they really wanted to.

Idk I just remembered watching a video with them talking about it. It could very well be an excuse because they just dun wanna.. I personally am impartial to the whole thing.. so long as i can still play in linux idc really. I just tend to post when i think i can add information.