Stop the WoWificaton (ui mods)

[Breakbeat]

Here is another saying: "Mind your own damn business". Meaning if people are engaged in acts that have no effect on you kindly leave them alone. Is that clear?

Yeah, absolutely, 100% agreed.

Also:

"to end your aggression" says the man, hahaha. There is a phrase that says, “When there is a Racist in the table and all accept it, all are Racist”. Meaning, if you accept the illegality, you are participating for braking the rules that you accepted, so you are an illegal person. Is it that clear?

We're talking about a video game, brother. In this video game discussion, to make a point, you're bringing up some deeply moral stuff about sitting at a table with racists. Let me re-iterate ... we're talking about a video game. How 'bout using an appropriate analogy instead of setting up a straw man by insinuating anyone who is OK with UI mods is OK with racism.

My god, man, that's asinine. Come on. I mean, really, you gotta go read up on this stuff if you think your debate technique is on point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

What's next? If one has ever witnessed another human littering, and failed to call the police, that person condones murder? 'Cause that's exactly what you're saying: complacency with small victimless crimes is equal to condoning something as morally reprehensible as racism.

Video game UI mods are benign. Live and let live.

And just out of my back pocket, I pull a reasonable analogy which proves you don't need to bring up racism in this discussion:

Using addons is like when people hang stuff from their rear-view mirror in their car or place bumper stickers on their windshields.

- These actions are illegal (as are the mods, in the same sense "against the law" that SE wrote)
- A lot of people get away with it (just like here).
- Most people don't pull over to the side of the road when they see these infractions, and immediately call the police.
- Both addons, and fuzzy dice, have a negligible chance of affecting you personally, as one that doesn't hang dice or use addons. You may, very rarely, encounter someone who gains a slight advantage over you due to their addons. You may, very rarely, encounter another driver who rear-ends you because their fuzzy dice blocked their view.

There, branch off that and say your piece, and leave the racism discussions for somewhere outside of a video game forum.

[DreadCrow]

"to end your aggression" says the man, hahaha. There is a phrase that says, “When there is a Racist in the table and all accept it, all are Racist”. Meaning, if you accept the illegality, you are participating for braking the rules that you accepted, so you are an illegal person. Is it that clear?

Racism is immoral. Modding isn't. Sure, it's against the terms of service... But so is playing the Super Mario theme as a bard in Limsa... And I guarantee if you report either, the GM that handles it isn't going to care much since they have to deal with people actually reporting genuinely toxic people.

If anyone wants to spend an hour or two reading up on some history of anti-cheat software in MMOS, and why SE and others have such a hard time automating the detection of bots 'n such, I'd do a few googles about WoW and Warden (the software, not the faction).

Long story short: It's very expensive, and it's a constant battle. Not nearly as easy or cut and dry as you'd assume it would be. Still very interesting reading, though.

This. 100%. I folks don't realize mods will always be a thing. Nothing SE can stop them.

[Wavaryen]

I'm not sure why some of you bring up the TOS. You understand a TOS is just something that they have to do to save themselves from legal trouble. It is not something that we have to follow right? And if they have no way to enforce said rules. Than the rule does not matter.
PC players get a perk of Mods. That is it. The content can be done without them, and the devs don't balance the game around mods unlike Blizzard. So people who use mods only do so to make the game more enjoyable for themselves. It does not hurt the game, or the players around because they are not allowed to talk about mods in game.


It is not a double standard on this issue. Bots ruins prices for other players on the market. So it has impact on others. Someone using combo combiner does not.

[LisSquid]

If anyone wants to spend an hour or two reading up on some history of anti-cheat software in MMOS, and why SE and others have such a hard time automating the detection of bots 'n such, I'd do a few googles about WoW and Warden (the software, not the faction).

Long story short: It's very expensive, and it's a constant battle. Not nearly as easy or cut and dry as you'd assume it would be. Still very interesting reading, though.

[MagiusNecros]

Any mods other people use will be client side and you'll never see them. YT/Twitch video's you'll see them but it's mostly shaders and facial cosmetics. Yoshi's stance has always been he recommends against using them but cannot force you not to. The bans are usually warranted if they change the core game or if they advertise it openly. If you do the Yoshi ninjas will get you.

I personally don't like mods and never used them in any MMO.

[DreadCrow]

The vast majority of the UI mods I see streamers use don't do anything but change the UI in a way that's easier for them to understand/parse int information the game already gives you. It's like me having my job gauges in the upper right corner, by the minimap and resizing the hot bars. It's not going to be a huge deal, even to raid groups, since there's already high end raiders that do Savage/Ultimate on consoles...

[Arckrin]

You really take this to another whole level, hahahaha. Dude, this why I am sick and tired. Keep justifying the illegal actions.

Like Germans says, “If there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis”

Bye bye o/

[DreadCrow]

You really take this to another whole level, hahahaha. Dude, this why I am sick and tired. Keep justifying the illegal actions.

Like Germans says, “If there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis”

Bye bye o/

There is nothing "illegal" about modding. It's against ToS, but that's it. It can potentially get you banned... If the GMs care enough to enforce it. They usually don't... UI mods don't really effect anything with the gameplay.

[Breakbeat]

You really take this to another whole level, hahahaha. Dude, this why I am sick and tired. Keep justifying the illegal actions.

Like Germans says, “If there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis”

Bye bye o/

There is only one level - life. Every action and behavior is inter-connected. Those that don't realize or believe that are naive.

I'll take your lack of response as an acceptance of defeat.

Toodles. o/

[Arckrin]

I just pass to correct you something...

There is nothing "illegal" about modding. It's against ToS, but that's it. It can potentially get you banned... If the GMs care enough to enforce it. They usually don't... UI mods don't really effect anything with the gameplay.

Please look what it is a Terms of Service (ToS) Agreement and why if you violated they can cancel your service or even take LEGAL actions on you... I will help you a bit on your search, you can also call Legal binding contract.

That been set, the consequence on that is up to the company (that is another story)

There is only one level - life. Every action and behavior is inter-connected. Those that don't realize or believe that are naive.

I'll take your lack of response as an acceptance of defeat.

Toodles. o/

You didn't even notice what I mean, and you are only pointing to the “racism”? Go back and read what I mean, dude. If you misplace or misunderstand my quotes and words, it is up to you.

And I take the opportunity to say, "Only fools think they win over others". Also, you are saying, “Every action and behavior is inter-connected. ..." is accepting what I say before… please read… read… I quote, “You cannot control the behaviour of others, but you can always choose how you respond to it.”

Dude, we called these situations “rain over wet” meaning you are saying something I already said related about how to react with other behaviours… This pass when a person try to “be” smart to refute something simple, he/she doesn't have reason. Or even try to distort.

It is interesting when people don't follow the conversations and just pop with the message out of context or out of the author context. :v Meaning… do not distract by the saying, but pay attention on of MEANING author is doing on the point. This is lack of reading interpretations.

EDIT: When was this turn into a contest to say who win or lose? *facepalm*