Homogenization and Simplicity in Tank Roles

[Aword3213]

To be honest, I very much hate the "Holy Trinity", the Damager-Healer-Tank Trifecta... A combat system that encourages homogenization, which is also sort of the Antithesis of(the case of how the FFXIV "jobs" are extra rigid makes this worse), the superior game design of In-Class Diversity and styles like skill trees, so FFXIV would have to change and upgrade its awful combat systems from the roots, I think...

Why do you even play FFXIV to begin with....? I'm not defending this game, but it seems to me that FFXIV as a genre and its core design are against your preference. Maybe you should just try a different game? I say this because I think the Holy Trinity thing will stay no matter how the game is improved.

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

Why do you even play FFXIV to begin with....? I'm not defending this game, but it seems to me that FFXIV as a genre and its core design are against your preference. Maybe you should just try a different game? I say this because I think the Holy Trinity thing will stay no matter how the game is improved.

It surprises me a little that a person would even bother to ask... That is a long story that does not belong in a place like this.

That said, you are correct, though... The Genre itself(a mere action game), and the general fundamental design of FFXIV, are both either not a match to.. or against my preference, yeh. And I do play other games a lot... I just continue to return to FFXIV, every time that I leave it, as I am not able to leave one final time, nor able to make the decision to not return...
Alas.. as I just did type, my story does not belong told here in this place, so I will refrain from that temptation.

On thread topic, what ever the cause or where ever whence it comes, myself and many others, both people here and not here, hate the slow progression of further homogenization and simplicity that steadily afflicts FFXIV. I am here like any other to share my opinion/s about it, and complain about a thing that we all hate... personal reasons or history with the game does not matter much.
I admit that in this particular case, I can not quite offer suggestions all that well, to deal with the as yet to still grow issue of homogenization and simplicity, but I can at least express that I feel similar to many others, to throw even a little more weight onto what ever scale may or may not collect all of these complaints, and weigh their worth.

[VictoriaLuv]

I think all tanks needs few balance changes that can really be fixed with a few small patches here and there. I feel squires-enix's direction isn't a negative. i mean rewarding upgraded version defensive cool-downs when using them at right time is great time making defensive cd's less boring and more active. . able to use ranged attacks without breaking combo's

[Braven_Doomdraft]

Right now I feel like GNB and WAR are in a good spot in terms of flavor. I see the general concern about streamlining the job but honestly if they make no more attempts to do so from here on out I think they'll find they've found a sweet spot. PLD needs a little love instead of its main utility just being stupid strong in terms of defense. DRK doesn't feel...unique enough? I don't know. I share the streamlining concern.

But also be aware that you're framing this argument from the perspective of a player, and in particular a player who is being ignorant of the overall need for job inclusivity. If every job doesn't bring the bare minimum of X to the table, then people will flood to one job, people will choose "role only" party make-ups and it will alienate a portion of the playerbase. It happened in FFXI when that was still running. From the developer's perspective it's probably very difficult to balance these jobs to be in tune with what they need to do in the role, what they want it to do as a job and what the players want it to do.

[Absurdity]

Right now I feel like GNB and WAR are in a good spot in terms of flavor. I see the general concern about streamlining the job but honestly if they make no more attempts to do so from here on out I think they'll find they've found a sweet spot. PLD needs a little love instead of its main utility just being stupid strong in terms of defense. DRK doesn't feel...unique enough? I don't know. I share the streamlining concern.

Funny part is, Paladin is not actually that strong in terms of defense. It has a bit more party utility but lacks 1 proper defensive cooldown compared to every other tank, has no selfheal on it's basic combo, and Shelltron is kinda bad in dungeons.

[Hysorn]

I don't have much experience but... Now that I started leveling a DPS, more specifically Ninja and Bard I noticed that my rotation at level 50 as Ninja in particular is more fun and dynamic than my rotation at level 80 as DRK. I love tanking but PLD and GNB are both equally boring at level 60 so I keep postponing leveling them.

What I am trying to say I guess is that while I love the role of tanking itself, I am having a hard time staying interested in the tanking jobs, they seem rather... Dull or simple, and that is bothering me a bit since DRK has by a long shot my favorite class fantasy, but I hardly feel like doing any end game content with it.

[Shin96]

I don't have much experience but... Now that I started leveling a DPS, more specifically Ninja and Bard I noticed that my rotation at level 50 as Ninja in particular is more fun and dynamic than my rotation at level 80 as DRK.

That's why I enjoy Ninja so much. It's basically the only job next to Black Mage that has any kind of feedback attached to it. Mess up your Huton? Things'll be slow. Mess up your Mudra? You'll get a bunny as a clear indicator for failure. At 80 I had to memorize about 40 buttons in a consecutive order for the opener alone (I think so?). Also there's the speed involved of how fast you press buttons to get your Mudra going. This type of challenge remains largely unseen with other jobs and their mastery is achieved so quickly, it undermines your skill as a player in terms of how much is possible and not.

[LaylaAlder]

Hmm... Well, how would we split the tanks up? If Healers are going Pure and Shield, what would separate tanking? I'm new to MMOs, so I don't really know what their needs are, but in single player games I often see the following kinds of tanks:

1: Bodyguards - your classic FF tank, taking damage in palace of another
2: Intercepters - interrupt and spoil enemy attacks
3: Harriers - singles out a strong foe via taunts and punishes, the D&D 4e tank
4: Aggro Pullers - produces threat to draw the attention of all foes, how they seem to work in FF14

So, I don't think adopting those separate types as a whole would work for FF14's design without an overhaul of the entire game, but I can see aspects of each being inserted into it. Everything's gonna be a type 4 anyways, and that's kind of redundant with type 3s. However, I can see Paladin and Gunbreaker gaining Bodyguard style effects, such as abilities that redirect damage towards them, and abilities that let them interpose themselves to take a hit for an out of position ally - an inverse rescue, per se. Dark Knight and Warrior on the other hand could be interceptors, with abilities that have extra effects within a second or so of losing aggro, or punishing effects for when enemies use abilities that ignore threat. If Interceptors were the only ones to be able to break flashing cast bars, it'd also give a reason to bring one of each tank type, just like how they'll be doing it with healers.

On top of that, I could see the Paladin and Dark Knight being the more defensive of the two, while Gunbreaker and Warrior being more offensive. Paladin would have shields and heals, Dark Knight would get many of its classic draining effects like Blood Sword. Meanwhile, perhaps Gunbreaker could provide defense down effects, while Warrior could provide attack up/rally buffs. Thus, you'd get an offensive and defensive flavored version of both types of tank.

What ways could you see splitting them into different types?

[ItMe]

What ways could you see splitting them into different types?

Considering we had an Main Tank / Off Tank metal emerge, and the devs didn't like that and tried fixing all tanks to be near equally good as either, I'm not sure they will ever get split up and I think people are overthinking the pure vs shield healer split.

[Hanayumi]

While yes it does suck that tanks feel far too much the same, they are fairly well balanced. Yall damn well know 1/2 the community would delve into picking the highest dps and the other 1/2 the easiest to play, devs just want folks to pick whichever they enjoying play rather than picking one cause so so guide says its the best kind of deal.