Homogenization and Simplicity in Tank Roles

[Shin96]

I'm sure in your weird doomsayer headcanon is keeping you busy enough, definitely. Tank playerbase is doing fine in game.

Give me statistics or it never happened. Otherwise I count that as anecdotal evidence and you're a conspiracy theorist. See how that works?

I talked to plenty of people inside Discord servers illustrating their gripes with how tanks are. But it's just as useless of an argument to make.

You're on the official forums. If you don't like what you're reading log out and keep crying in your echo-chamber where the roses smell wonderful.

[Mindiori]

Hah. Anyone happy with the current state of 'challenge' cough, with tanking - or infact anything - must be really setting the low bar on thick. Braindead is braindead. Whatever your sample size.

[FoxCh40s]

Hah. Anyone happy with the current state of 'challenge' cough, with tanking - or infact anything - must be really setting the low bar on thick. Braindead is braindead. Whatever your sample size.

Like at this point, it's just pattern recognition. It's the like the same 8 mechanics over and over, just renamed and repackaged.

[Shin96]

The problem is lies also within the design philosophy in this game.

Why reward a bad player when they play to the worst of their abilities? People adore this aspect of equality, but it also leads to the stagnation of skill and therefore comes the self-fullfilling prophecy: as standards increasingly lower over time, it eventually bleeds into other aspects in the game. This is why you will find fervent advocates for lowering the skill ceiling for almost anything. It's a statement you set that you can be coerced as a developer. Why should I give my best when player B plays worse than someone that has never played an MMO? You would think it's the developers setting the bar for expectations, but alas, it's the majority, the playerbase that is dictating the future of where the game is going. Does that have to be a bad thing? No, in its self-contained reality it's logical even, given they want to maximize profits. But comes with a price to pay, which is the degradation of content by people that have absolutely zero idea of what interesting and engaging gameplay looks like.

Now for difficulty. Hitting the same enemy 100 times is not difficulty. It's the equivalent of setting the difficulty on the highest possible scale, but ultimately fails to deliever critical components which define the progress and value of choosing a challenge. It's called high-risk, high-reward. That means if I decide to take on this challenge, my rewards will increase significantly. What the game currently does however, is in stark contrast to this philosophy. It doesn't matter if an awfully bad Red Mage ignores using their AoE rotation, or if your Summoner plays their job perfectly. The results are always the same, and apart from the timer you won't even be able to tell, unless it's a painfully slow experience.

With that said, the standards should be set high. A good player is worth a 100 bad players, effectively the only contradicting point against this is the fact 100 players are financially more worth than 1 player. Which do you choose? Money or the slow death and degradation of everything else? The fact of the matter is, greed is the end of all. You cannot please everyone.

[RinaB]

I've been tanking for 3 years and I can't do it anymore. The live letter killed any hopes I had of a bit more identity and complexity to the role and I'd rather be in long queue times then play this boring hollow shell of a role. I will not heal either as this face roll design for tanks attracted a lot of "interesting" folks to the role and every run is nothing but a painful chore of carrying. It's a double edge sword for devs because they want to minimize the tank shortage but they're doing this at the expense of everyone else.

The good tank players quit the role because it's too boring and dry and the influx of new tanks make the content much harder then it needs to be. As I've been leveling my SAM this week I have never wiped so many times in 70 to 80 dungeons in my life. Long story short I would rather the skill ceiling for tanks be much higher (which results in fewer players) and wait longer then get the wipe fest that is current tanks. Dumbing down anything is never a good way to go and the result is making mediocrity the standard.

[Mindiori]

The majority do indeed dictate. Casual, as I have noted before was phrased into 'people who can't be bothered'. Instead of the once familiar 'less time to play'. Yoshi echoes it with, ''we expect people to take breaks''. Certainly on the surface they can wrangle reasons why this is all fine. Yet as you correctly assert above, it is the motive/reason for their doing so that is the problem.

To have a world, such as it is a 'mini one that imitates in many ways larger systems'; dictated by the whims of those too lazy for the most primitive things - of course its a disaster.

In a very real sense, anyone who joins/partakes in virtually anything in this life - often looks for inspiration/motivation or reason to bother. Something often found in the veterans. By nature, they are always fewer in number.

In the past, looking up to people who had invested/achieved and completed things; was fine. It makes logical sense. Then the greed and self-entitlement set in. ''Why shouldn't I be instantly inline with people who have been doing this years?'' ''It shouldn't be a job'' ''I pay my sub''.

Yes you do. However you don't pay for the right to destroy a shared environment and undermine its value. Because they pay as well.

This modern mindset, is akin to a mental illness. It pays no mind to good virtues and fosters little but negative ones. Accepting things take time, is a part of their inherent worth. That has been gutted. Making things trivial. Skippable. Makes you question the point of long term mentor systems, or grind at all. Not in the sense that anyone should like those things. Rather that they only existed in the past because of peoples acceptance of certain negatives to generate pacing and investment. Scope in time played. There should be a difference between a person who has just begun and one who hasn't. Yet they are forced to fight it - because people can't accept any effort.

Laziness is a blight. Seemingly now something they consider built in. Some casuals once said to me, 'I don't want to play 24/7'. Fair enough I thought. Yet ask them why. ''Well I have a lot of other things to do. Things that demand time and dedication'.

Ah. So you accept that something of worth requires that. Yet want to render upon a game worthlessness. So that you can 'fit it in'. That is not how things should work. Imagine in real life, you worked 3 years for a degree. The guy next to you laughs. ''should have bought the skip pot mate'.

Yes. This is a game. However because people are involved many philosophical principles align with it all the same. Nobody would bother with a skilled hobby if after years of dedication they were at the same level as a day 1 beginner. Because of their investment value.

If people are too stupid to understand why dumbing down a game, results in similar - conversation is ultimately pointless.

[FoxCh40s]

I've been tanking for 3 years and I can't do it anymore. The live letter killed any hopes I had of a bit more identity and complexity to the role and I'd rather be in long queue times then play this boring hollow shell of a role. I will not heal either as this face roll design for tanks attracted a lot of "interesting" folks to the role and every run is nothing but a painful chore of carrying. It's a double edge sword for devs because they want to minimize the tank shortage but they're doing this at the expense of everyone else.

The good tank players quit the role because it's too boring and dry and the influx of new tanks make the content much harder then it needs to be. As I've been leveling my SAM this week I have never wiped so many times in 70 to 80 dungeons in my life. Long story short I would rather the skill ceiling for tanks be much higher (which results in fewer players) and wait longer then get the wipe fest that is current tanks. Dumbing down anything is never a good way to go and the result is making mediocrity the standard.

Healers have been saying this for years. I will repeat my sentiments as I have over there.

Square Enix does not care. THEY. DO. NOT. CARE.

[RinaB]

They should care as the more you dumb down important roles the more you need to dumb down content difficulty and then eventually all aspects of the game. Mmos are kind of expected to have tank and healer shortages because only a few dedicated people play the roles or at least try to. These roles are supposed to be played by the people who enjoy them which in turn usually means they're also good at them. Making heals and tanks boring and easy mode may help groups form faster but what kind of group are you getting? "It's just Malikas well bro". Exactly bro, why are we wiping and struggling? Go play something else. I am now and it's fine, but I can't help but think of how many tanks like me have laid down their weapon and changed their armor when I see the new "tanks".

[Shin96]

All of this simply is the result of FFXIV being the only viable MMO at the market right now.

There's nothing intrinsically valuable about a player that cannot pull their own weight. The reason for all of this is precisely because the demographics aren't evenly divided as they should be. Casuals, up to midcore- and hardcore should never be treated the same way. What you end up with is a war of interests and conflicts because of envy for achievements, popularity, or any other specific reason someone might dislike you. Heck, even a mentor crown is enough for someone to stigmatize you.

It is for this reason there's so much hate against mentors and savage raiders recently - from by observation. Typical lines include: "Well, they don't deserve a sliver of content! They are toxic!" If they deserve nothing, you are deserving of even less, given the absolute lack of any effort from your side. This is why you cannot reason with them, because their insecurities are born from envy and ignorance; what they cannot understand, they simply shall get rid off to minimize discomfort or the source thereof.

Which eerily reminds me of a real world political ideology becoming more relevant again. It's bleeding into the gaming industry as well, I'm sure you guessed which.

Anyhow, I digress. Square Enix does not care because they are a company. I cannot recall or think of any company that hasn't ended up screwing their customers over in some way, at least. Think of Cyberpunk 2077 and CD Project Red, even with a good track record they just shat out a game borderline criminally and people simply accepted it, because.. why not?

[Mindiori]

As we say, we know who and we know why.

I thank the stars the real world doesn't offer a skip pot - but even then, we know that the scroungers would rather get a hand out than bother. All of the envy in the world; yet they would reduce it to babies level so they can obtain it without work or investment. Crippling it entirely.

I certainly think someone knows precisely what they are doing here in all these areas. Which is why I implore people to hold their ground - popular or not. Worth is worth. You can't subjectify everything to suit a narrative. Even if 'most' people prefer a one button cruise; the equality they espouse should extend beyond the opposite number. Those being given that oh so generous 1% As per your implication; their distaste or even hate for those who disagree is very similar to a emergent world view. This is a game of people. Of course it is leaking into it.

Has anyone even paused to reflect on the hilarity of the concept; 'nobody wants challenge or things that take work'. Because in a very practical way that becomes 'Nobody cares that its meaningless. Enjoy'. The very antithesis to purpose, or long term investment in ...anything at all.

The level of stupidity beggars belief. On deaf ears though. I recommend finding a discipline that rewards hard work, has a progressive learning curve. And one where long term investors are respected for that much. Not condemned as some sort of laughing stock, for the crime of 'being concerned'.