Idea to make DF raids less annoying for tanks.

[DrWho2010]

there's been plenty of times where i have the better gear and turn on tank stance but the other undergeared less experienced tank still insists on trying to be MT. I've found that trying to have a conversation about it doesn't work half the time tho. It usually ends up with a response of "bruh, I'm MT whatchu gonna do about it". I just let them do it at that point and contribute the bare minimum and only take over if they die.

[Goji1639]

1. Playing a tank class and actually tanking content are 2 different things.

2. Uh yes it does. If you que as OT and the MT sucks bad enough you have to MT when you wanted to OT the whole purpose of you queing OT just went out the window.

3. "Every stupid little thing" Yeah, you're probably a joy to be around. I'm beginning to understand why you don't want to interact with others so much. Also if you're not seeing the issues that have been brought up, you just aren't reading them and comprehending.

Here lets review them again for you.

First up provoke and shirk work fine as is. Your suggested changes to provoke hinder the tanks ability to do their jobs by making it harder for them to juggle aggro as needed.

Second you are splitting tanks into 2 groups and then at the same time not. What's the point? When combined with your provoke changes your adding in role changes too if needed because the other person isn't doing their job well enough or are horribly out geared. Congrats you pointlessly added an additional role that may or may not be your qued for roll.

Third if talking to others is such a hassle, this isn't the kind of game for you. Do yourself a favor and find a solo game to play instead. You will be happier.

1. No they're not.

2. That doesn't defeat the purpose; because it still serves a purpose the other 99 out of 100 times where the MT can tank just fine.

3. I've been addressing everything you've brought up; you just haven't been making good point. It doesn't mean there aren't good points to be made; it just means you're not capable.

All you and others keep saying basically is "what's the point?" I've already explained the point. To prevent the same dumb conversation and guessing game from being required for every stupid little thing you queue for.

Well the problem is that it's both awful and unnecessary. You want to split tank queues and create an entire queue role specifically to enable off-tank mains that want to queue for a fight and not have any responsibility? There's an entire separate role for people that want to queue for a fight and then not tank the boss. It's called 'DPS'.

Anything else is going to require a conversation, and I realize that with you never having actually played a tank- the role for which you are making suggestions- that it might be completely lost on you that that conversation is easy and completely non-verbal in 95% of cases. The other tank puts stance up? Has better gear? Congrats, they're MT. It is an interaction with no difficulty whatsoever and does not require a mechanical or 'aesthetic' change.

Most people don't even pay attention to chat, so asking in chat has about a 50/50 shot at accomplishing anything. Non verbal communication also rarely works out competently; I can't count the number of times I've put on stance and pulled just to have the boss immediately provoked off of me. And when I'm not tanking I'm frequently watching aggro yoyo back and forth for no reason. It's stupid; it would be better if everyone had clear roles.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

There are good ideas, and then there's this. How about no?

Making tank swapping harder because "some people are dumb in DF" is a bad reason to change things.

Maybe just learn to adjust like every other good tank?

[Goji1639]

There are good ideas, and then there's this. How about no?

Making tank swapping harder because "some people are dumb in DF" is a bad reason to change things.

Maybe just learn to adjust like every other good tank?

Eh, if it really will make tank swapping too complicated then it is what it is.

I'll have to apologize; It didn't really sound that difficult to me. I'm used to playing much harder games than this, though.

Adjusting is what I've been doing, but it's still dumb to have us queue without clear roles. Having to figure out who's actually going to tank at the beginning of every single run isn't difficult, it's just tedious.

[Aurida]

I can't count the number of times I've put on stance and pulled just to have the boss immediately provoked off of me.

I can.

Nope, never once played a tank class in this or any game.

It's zero

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Eh, if it really will make tank swapping too complicated then it is what it is.

I'll have to apologize; It didn't really sound that difficult to me. I'm used to playing much harder games than this.

Adjusting is what I've been doing, but it's still dumb for to have us queue without clear roles. Having to figure out who's actually going to tank at the beginning of every single run isn't difficult, it's just tedious.

Its easy? If other tank has tank stance on, they can tank, i drop mine. I've been tanking for... 8 years now almost, and I can count the number of times its REALLY been an issue (outside of just people being morons in alliance raids, which, this wouldn't solve anyway) on one hand.

[Goji1639]

I can.

It's zero

Your deductive reasoning skills are very impressive.

Its easy? If other tank has tank stance on, they can tank, i drop mine. I've been tanking for... 8 years now almost, and I can count the number of times its REALLY been an issue (outside of just people being morons in alliance raids, which, this wouldn't solve anyway) on one hand.

Didn't say it wasn't easy; I said it was tedious. Everything in this game is easy, so the goal is to simply make things less annoying. I'm glad this doesn't annoy you, but it annoys me enough that I'd be willing to endure actually having shirk on my hotbar to get rid of it.

[Rowde]

Didn't say it wasn't easy; I said it was tedious. Everything in this game is easy, so the goal is to simply make things less annoying. I'm glad this doesn't annoy you, but it annoys me enough that I'd be willing to endure actually having shirk on my hotbar to get rid of it.

[Jeeqbit]

This would get rid of that awkward "who's going to MT" moment at the beginning of every run; it would stop tanks from provoking back and forth mid fight for no reason and it would stop OT's from intentionally cleaving groups.

There doesn't have to be an awkward moment, just turn on tank stance and pull the boss. Whoever is holding aggro obviously is the main tank.

[Penthea]

This would get rid of that awkward "who's going to MT" moment at the beginning of every run; it would stop tanks from provoking back and forth mid fight for no reason and it would stop OT's from intentionally cleaving groups.

Every run? I rarely see stalling happening because of tanks. Most stalling I see is because people need mechanics unrelated to tanking explained to them. And even then the stalling doesn't last long aside from week 1 and 2 of new content, which is to be expected.

Your suggestion would create problems. First of all not all encounters are tanked by only one tank. There are numerous examples of when each tank needs to tank something at the same time because it's impossible for only one tank to do it. Some fights require planned tank swaps, and sometimes a tank dcs or dies meaning another tank has to pick up the boss. Anyone who flagged themselves as OT would be putting themselves at a disadvantage in those encounters, which would mean the entire group is at a disadvantage due to OTs being essentially debuffed.

There would be more stalling due to the problems your suggestion would create. Replacing one problem with another set of problems isn't a fix. And this isn't something I think even needs a fix.