Down for the Count NEVER AGIAN PLEASE

[Mikitan]

I love this game, I really want to be immersed in the story and as a new player I loved the game up through heavensward... but please don't EVER make another zen or ran character that has 40 mile thick plot armor and casts "DOWN FOR THE COUNT" on your character ever again.

I am sick of fighting some nerd for 20 minutes only for him to pull some plot armor move and BAM time wasted. You want a character to be threatening? fine... let them do some crazy stuff IN A CUTSCENE where I don't have to mash the heck out of thany's 5 abilities for 20 minutes only for DOWN FOR THE COUNT to come in and just destroy everything.

I've just accepted that this story isn't worth paying attention to, I've started skipping all dialogue because obviously no matter how well I play or how good I dodge... I'm just wasting my time caring about any of this, I will kill the zen's and ren's when its their time to be killed. I really really wish there was a way to unlock end game dungeons without having to be kicked in the teeth by an emo with a golf bag of swords or a samurai grandpa that is omnipotent for *reasons*

Rant over, you have a great game square enix... but oh my god...

[Enkidoh]

I.. don't know how to break this to you, but I'll try as gently as possible.. but, that is nothing, it gets worse, much. much worse. That sort of mechanic pops up a lot more frequently as the game progresses, and there is no avoiding it.

It's not too difficult to deal with though, you just need to be paying attention, and at the very least treat it like a more frustrating version of Stun, and if at worst, know that mechanics like Down For the Count often have some added mechanic that needs to be satisfied at the same time to avoid being killed (and to escape/dispel the effect) - a certain boss in Stormblood is an example of this.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

You'll be fine, Down for the Count really isn't THAT bad.
And you can easily skip all of this....by going to the Mogstation and buying a skip. If you dont wanna spend the money, then just solider on the best you can. It gets better.

[ICountFrom0]

Stormblood does it badly.

Eden does it better.

I understand the frustration, the phrase you might be looking for is: Ludonarrative dissonance

If the game wanted you to feel weak, they'd make the boss more powerful the entire time, not just up and slap you down at random.
That one fight could be done much better if the HP bar didn't really move as you were fighting him, and the echo didn't kick in, you couldn't see the attacks before they happened, if they HURT and you'd struggle to survive or do any damage the entire time, with it setup so that if you fail at any time it skips to the "down for the count" at 1 hp. Could probably rig it with a buff that keeps you from hitting 0 hp and triggers at 1. But, well, they didn't, and we just have to suffer through a few fights that treat us worse then a cat with a mouse.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

That one fight could be done much better if the HP bar didn't really move as you were fighting him, if they HURT and you'd struggle to survive or do any damage the entire time

To be fair, both of the scripted Zen battles do this. He takes like 90% reduced damage so his HP basically doesn't move (You can get him to like ~92-95% on average across 5+ minutes of fighting him), your hit rate against him is random due to the level difference between you & him, and messing up his mechanics deals a ton of damage.

The Ran battles suffer from Ludonarrative dissonance much more than the early Stormblood battles did.

[ICountFrom0]

I had him WAY lower then this, and a friend with a samurai REALLY had him down when playing last month, but it might be a matter of echo creep.

I felt like I might actually WIN the fight playing as a MCH 2 years ago, until, boom. Down.

[lezard21]

The reason why the first 2 Zenos battle aren't a cutscene is because they wanted to establish him as a threat above what you've fought so far, and if it had been done via cutscene people would have said "well, he only won cause it was a cutscene, if I had control I would have kicked his butt". Specially considering what a faceroll his actual battle in the level 70 dungeon is.

I do agree it could have been done a lot better by having his attacks have no tells and deal a lot more damage and with no heroic resolve passive healing so that you'd eventually "die" instead of dragging on for 10 minutes till you meet the required event flag.

Also "Down for the Count" used to be a lot worse in raids before MNK changes since they used to lose all Greased Lightning stacks causing their DPS to tank hard

[Mikitan]

Thanks for the commiseration in this little flaw in the game, I don't know exactly why but it really gets under my skin when I do everything right and still fail... Just feels bad I guess compared to everything else they do right in this game.

[VelKallor]

Thanks for the commiseration in this little flaw in the game, I don't know exactly why but it really gets under my skin when I do everything right and still fail... Just feels bad I guess compared to everything else they do right in this game.

Mikitan: Its a reminder though we may be the Warrior of Light, there are battles we will lose. There are battles that cannot be won...when we go up against someone who is far FAR more powerful than we are, who can stand against us and beat us..we are not all powerful, all knowing.

Real life teaches us this lesson as well, that there are times when it doesnt matter what we do...it will never be enough. Harsh, and necessary.

In the ST universe they call it the Kobiyashi Maru, a no win scenario. It isnt that we lose that matters, its that we stand up and take the fight to them..its how we handle defeat, how we cope when force of arms alone will not carry the day.

Take that from one who DID meet his own Kobiyashi Maru in real life...who even today is forced to accept the fact this was a war that could NOT be won.

It still hurts and always will, but I take comfort in the fact that at least I found the strength to fight, to snarl defiance at the inevitable.

How we handle defeat, what we do when we are on our knees, bloodied, whether we find the courage to stagger to our feet, weapon in hand, stare at our enemy and say "Was that the BEST you can do?"

It is in that time between seconds, the hairline thread between victory and defeat, that defines our character, our soul.....and our destiny.

For those we have lost...for those we can yet save.

[Penthea]

Huh this never bothered me, but I suppose it's because I know that what I personally do doesn't impact the story. The same story is told to every player regardless of how well they play.