Samurai have positionals?!

[ssunny2008]

Again, yes trying will make some worse because they do not know the fights, they tank is moving the boss a lot, someone else died meaning the mechanics shift. Unless you got your rotation and fight on lock, trying to go for positionals can very well make you lose dps. Positionals are the smallest factor of your dps and absolutely last thing you should be paying attention to.

I'm seeing people saying if you don't hit positionals then you suck and are losing a ton of damage which is largely untrue. Its the exact same mindset that leads the extreme toxic behaviors we see in other games, that peopel claim FFXIV avoids. That is what I get from this, despite that a person not trying to hit positionals could out dps a person trying to hit positions just out of luck on number of crits.

The 1% or so difference in damage takes into account the crit positionals. I'm not saying positionals do not matter to damage at all. I'm saying they only matter when trying to get the highest possible parse which is only a fraction of a fraction of the player base and that the vast vast majority will never be in a position where such matters, even if they are trying to be. Much much more important things to focus on to improve your play before even thinking about positionals except for on monk because pretty much all their GCDs are psoitionals.

Positionals are always a gain, in case of MNK even way more than 1%. DRG won´t get his buffed attack without them, SAM either lose Kaiten or Shinten. NIN is pretty much the only class who can stay behind the boss 90% of the fight.

And yes, you do suck if you ignore to play positionals on purpose. It´s not a toxic mindset, it´s nothing but the truth. If you don´t give your best, you hinder the whole group. And as a DPS class you should use whatever is possible to increase your damage. Any little percentage can make the difference in content which aren´t braindead dungeons. I´ve seen more than once groups wiping to the enrage at 1% or even 0,1% in savage.
This casual mindset "don´t care about it" is a joke and if you´re not able to play 123, 145, 16 as SAM, you should go practice or change the class. Nothing is more braindead than those 123 combos with 60s buffs. Imo such mindsets are the reason, why the game is getting easier and classes get way too much dumbdowns.
I don´t know why ppl still play games, when all they want is free loot by spamming 1 button.

[Nothv13]

Positionals are always a gain, in case of MNK even way more than 1%. DRG won´t get his buffed attack without them, SAM either lose Kaiten or Shinten. NIN is pretty much the only class who can stay behind the boss 90% of the fight.

And yes, you do suck if you ignore to play positionals on purpose. It´s not a toxic mindset, it´s nothing but the truth. If you don´t give your best, you hinder the whole group. And as a DPS class you should use whatever is possible to increase your damage. Any little percentage can make the difference in content which aren´t braindead dungeons. I´ve seen more than once groups wiping to the enrage at 1% or even 0,1% in savage.
This casual mindset "don´t care about it" is a joke and if you´re not able to play 123, 145, 16 as SAM, you should go practice or change the class. Nothing is more braindead than those 123 combos with 60s buffs. Imo such mindsets are the reason, why the game is getting easier and classes get way too much dumbdowns.
I don´t know why ppl still play games, when all they want is free loot by spamming 1 button.

MNK is the only one consistently more than 1% and that is because all its GCDs have positionals. DRG, you'll hit 50% of those extra attacks just sitting only on the back or side as you only have to hit the last positional before you cycle back to the beginning of the combo to trigger the new attack. You'll hit even more just sitting on the seem between the front and back

I've seen wipes that close too. It wasn't the positionals that changed it though. It was less people dieing, one person getting a more crisp rotation, one less person out of position, one less time the tank moved the boss slightly wrong. Absolutely the last thing you should worry about is the positionals on all but MNK. Not once have I ever heard any any stream I've seen progressing content, that it is positional that make the difference.

[Rilifane]

MNK is the only one consistently more than 1% and that is because all its GCDs have positionals. DRG, you'll hit 50% of those extra attacks just sitting only on the back or side as you only have to hit the last positional before you cycle back to the beginning of the combo to trigger the new attack. You'll hit even more just sitting on the seem between the front and back

I've seen wipes that close too. It wasn't the positionals that changed it though. It was less people dieing, one person getting a more crisp rotation, one less person out of position, one less time the tank moved the boss slightly wrong. Absolutely the last thing you should worry about is the positionals on all but MNK. Not once have I ever heard any any stream I've seen progressing content, that it is positional that make the difference.

A wipe is caused by too many mistakes spread across multiple people. Just because that guy over there lost more dps from not doing something than you did by deliberately ignoring positionals doesn't mean ignoring positionals is okay or should be encouraged.
Everything makes a difference and it all adds up. I've seen kills where the enrage animation went out and people already started dying. A DRG not hitting positionals, a BLM refreshing Eno early a few times, a DNC overwriting a few procs, a NIN missing a Raiton in their TA are all minor mistakes that are all things that could've made the difference between kill or no kill.
Mistakes will inevitably happen because we're human but there is a difference between "I try but shit happens" and deliberately not doing something that is free damage.
Instead of saying "someone else could've done better and it would've been a kill", conveniently trying shifting the blame, people should play as best as they can and focus on doing their own thing well. That includes playing positionals whenever safely possible.

Yes, someone could've just stayed alive. Yes, the boss could've been positioned better.
Doesn't excuse deliberately not putting forth effort for things that don't require much effort to begin with. This is not even min-maxing level we're talking about. It's a basic mechanic for all melees.
Even if something like ignoring positionals is minor compared to dying, I find the mindset of "Why should I bother?" much worse than someone dying to a mechanic. They are generally willing to learn and do better next time. I'd rather take that than this mindset.

If someone lacks practice on a class, by all means, please ignore positionals for now and focus on the basic rotation. If someone is unsure if they can safely play them, they should simply miss it and move on with their life. If they tried and the boss happened to turn, well... shit happens. They tried.
That's all fine.
Encouraging people to always ignore them is not. Let them learn instead of dragging them down.