Adventurer in need

[Shadream]

Ah, the problem that always plagues most MMOs with Dungeons. Too few tanks and healers, too many DPS.

As someone who focuses on tanking and healing in FFXIV, my suggestion for the problem is this. If you run a roulette as tank or healer at max level, you'll get an XP-pill as a reward at the end, containing the amount of XP you would have gotten if you did run the dungeon below max level. After the dungeon is done, you then swap to a DPS job, pop the pill, and all the XP would go to that job instead of your tank or healer.

Of course, there would have to be some limitations to this. Like that you can't use an XP-pill on a job that wasn't high enough to begin with to do that dungeon.

For example: An XP-pill created in "Dusk Vigil" (lvl 51) can't be used on a Bard lvl 32 because that job wouldn't have been able to do that dungeon. But if you have one pill from "Brayflox's Longstop" (lvl 32) or "Halatali" (lvl 20), they would work on the Bard since these dungeons are within its level range.

These XP-pills should also only be available from Roulettes. Otherwise, you would have people spamming specific dungeons only.

Or perhaps this is a silly idea?

[DPZ2]

Or perhaps this is a silly idea?

Not silly, per se, just unnecessary. DPS queues aren't that long, and leveling roulette dungeons give out a bunch of XP already.

At that point, one might as well pay for a job-level boost, collect the 500,000 gil and be done with it. You'll get the exact same experience playing your job as those pills would give: basically, none.

[Fyrebrand]

More likely: Square Enix looked at all of the other Final Fantasy games that came before, mostly 3-4 person parties, and said "We want to provide that JRPG feel to our new MMO" and then sized parties appropriately.

You could have made your point by simply saying "half the games in the series have parties of four." I don't see how mentioning all the games with three-person parties helps your case, as three is a different number from four. Are you trying to say that FFXIV has groups of four because other games had groups of three?
Also, if FFXIV had come out with dungeon parties of five players, I don't think anybody would be outraged at having lost some vague "JRPG feel."

[DPZ2]

You could have made your point by simply saying "half the games in the series have parties of four." I don't see how mentioning all the games with three-person parties helps your case, as three is a different number from four. Are you trying to say that FFXIV has groups of four because other games had groups of three?
Also, if FFXIV had come out with dungeon parties of five players, I don't think anybody would be outraged at having lost some vague "JRPG feel."

Apparently I didn't make my point at all, if you're objecting to the way it was stated, rather than the fact that the Home Audience for FFXIV was Japanese, used to Final Fantasy games (which are JRPGs), which have traditionally had fewer than 5 party members for encounters.

The fact that you, personally, wouldn't have been outraged if the game lost some of that traditional "JRPG feel" doesn't impress me. Nor does it provide an answer for the question "what's the particular advantage of the 5 member dungeon party?" other than because ... tradition?

[Jojoya]

Ok, yes, I'm sure this has been brought up time and again but I REALLY just want to throw another two cents in. This has GOT to be improved, considerably. I play a lot of tank and healer, and can insta-queue into just about anything. That is not a good thing. It SOUNDS like it is, for obvious reasons, but it also means there is huge, unaddressed issue.

It means that there are just lines of groups waiting for someone of my role to jump in. I, personally, love doing roulettes, but many do them only once for the large daily bonus. I feel as though if the repeatable "in need" bonuses were higher, more tanks and healers would be available and DPS would not be languishing for so long for everything they want to do.

As it is, the "in need" bonus is paltry at best and insulting at worst. This game goes a long way to use matchmaking work so that players can at least do all the non-EX/Savage etc content without statics. But I feel like that would go a long way to help a very longstanding, very well known (and IMO, largely unaddressed) issue.

Increasing the reward is not going to increase the number of players who want to tank or heal.

It's also not going to decrease the number of players trying to level their DPS jobs and that's what is clogging up the queue. If all my tanks and healers are leveled, and I'm queueing so I can level my DRG, it doesn't matter what the AIN reward is. I'm still going to be queuing on my DRG.

The only thing that might help is changing party composition from 1 tank/1 healer/2 DPS to 1 tank/1 healer/3-4 DPS and I doubt that's a change SE can easily make.

[Fyrebrand]

Apparently I didn't make my point at all, if you're objecting to the way it was stated...

No, I was objecting to the fact that you were trying to bolster your point by referencing examples that didn't support it. You don't get to say FFXIV ought to have a 4-person party configuration, and then cite games that don't have that as evidence.

...rather than the fact that the Home Audience for FFXIV was Japanese, used to Final Fantasy games (which are JRPGs), which have traditionally had fewer than 5 party members for encounters.

FFXIV dungeon parties are made of 4 players, not "3-4" or some undefined "fewer than 5." It's 4. If this game had parties of 3 members, it would be a very different conversation (if such an MMO could even function, that is).

The fact that you, personally, wouldn't have been outraged if the game lost some of that traditional "JRPG feel" doesn't impress me.

Do you honestly think anybody would be upset, or feel that it's "not a real JRPG" if FFXIV had come out with 5-person dungeon groups? How about Final Fantasy IV? Is that not a real Final Fantasy game, to you? Is a single-person increase in the size of a party really what defines what a JRPG is? And why do big story arcs cap off with a "full party" of 8-person groups? Don't they care about that "JRPG feel" anymore?

Nor does it provide an answer for the question "what's the particular advantage of the 5 member dungeon party?" other than because ... tradition?

Dude, YOU are the only one appealing to tradition here. Your entire argument is nothing but explaining that it was a certain way in the past, therefore that's how it should be. Just TWO SENTENCES AGO you literally said: "Final Fantasy games (which are JRPGs), which have traditionally had fewer than 5 party members for encounters."

Anyway, as far as what the advantage would be of 5-person groups in an MMO, you need look no further than what this very thread is essentially about. People need to get into dungeons. Most people play DPS, and so the queue time for DPS is disproportionately longer than other roles. They literally had to install a system of rewards and incentives to get tanks/healers to run content repeatedly, just so people can get into required duties. If you had 3 DPS per group instead of 2, that would certainly help alleviate this problem somewhat. That's why I mentioned that so many other MMORPGs have 5-player groups -- because even in those cases, DPS still have longer queues. It wasn't because it's an MMO "tradition" or that the number 5 has some magical "feeling" about it.

[Kikoten]

Bottom line, in roulette, Tank and Healer are just not as fun as DPS (subjective, but hear me out).

Tank has to pay attention and otherwise generally set the pace. There is an expectation overall to know mechanics and avoid or mitigate damage/needless death because if you (tank) die, everyone may die.

Healer similarly has some need to pay attention to tank busters/general mechanics in order to keep the party alive. Your job also becomes harder if the other players are terrible. Obviously your death significantly imperils the party.

This is not to say EITHER tank or healer is necessarily hard...it's just that DPS is that much easier to do. Even if you die, the party can generally trudge forth. You really only affect the speed the dungeon is cleared unless there are DPS/enrage checks. This lack of pressure is very appealing.

I actually used to think this way, but when I started tanking more (I'm a healer by trade, so healing is insta-fun for me, no matter what), the thought of having my work cut out for me actually made it more fun. Yeah, it sucks when I screw up and people get KO'd because of it, but without that risk, I get too complacent and start thinking tanking is boring.

[Rinhi]

Not silly, per se, just unnecessary. DPS queues aren't that long

I'd call 20-30 minutes for a simple leveling roulette long

[Kes13a]

I'd call 20-30 minutes for a simple leveling roulette long

never had that long of a wait when I was leveling my dps.

[Lexis]

The DPS queue times seem to go up as you level. When I was in ARR, I'd wait 5-8 mins for a DPS queue. By the time I reached shadowbringers, I was waiting 20+ minutes. At least that's how it was on Leviathan (Primal). Crystal seems to have similar wait times so far but I'm only in the 60 level ranges.

As for the Tank/Healer shortage, it's not unique to this game and happens in every grouping system that relies on the Holy Trinity (Tank, DPS, Healer). GW2 implemented a self sufficient system that required no specific roles to be played, good on them for shaking up the standard, but it personally wasn't for me. Tried it, hated it; I love my holy trinity. I've always been a healer at heart, from my old WoW days to today in FFXIV, it's just something I enjoy doing but it's not given to everyone I guess. I don't think any manner of incentive will ever change the fact that most people apparently prefer playing DPS roles. If anything, they'll feel forced to play Healers and tanks for said rewards and be bitter about this, thus creating unnecessary tensions in groups.

I feel like the current system is fair. Play a needed role if you want shorter queues or stick to DPS and prepare yourself for longer queues. I personally play Ninja for quests and duties, since they're designed with DPS classes in mind, and play white mage for dungeons, trials and other group content. Best of both worlds!