Idea to make DF raids less annoying for tanks.

[Goji1639]

Not sure how this would affect queues, but for any raids I think that tanks should have the options to queue specifically as MT or OT; and the roles will get some party window indicators so everyone knows exactly who the MT is.

If you queue as OT your provoke ability takes an enmity penalty, so you won't be able to use it to pull off the MT. If you need to tank swap then we can buff/adjust shirk to counter the penalty and allow the OT to provoke aggro until whenever the MT decides to provoke it back. Would require a little more MT/OT coordination then what would normally be required, but nothing too crazy.

This would get rid of that awkward "who's going to MT" moment at the beginning of every run; it would stop tanks from provoking back and forth mid fight for no reason and it would stop OT's from intentionally cleaving groups.

[DeaconMoore]

Eh, why? Sometimes provoking off the main tank can save that tank. Sometimes you need to switch too depending on mechanics. Is it really that hard to make a macro to ask if they want to mt or ot and sort it out if you don't feel like typing it out everytime?

[TaleraRistain]

That doesn't sound wise. What if you get someone undergeared who wants to MT and the person who really should be MT as OT? I could see a lot of potential for issues there.

[Goji1639]

Eh, why? Sometimes provoking off the main tank can save that tank. Sometimes you need to switch too depending on mechanics. Is it really that hard to make a macro to ask if they want to mt or ot and sort it out if you don't feel like typing it out everytime?

Can switch using Shirk if the mechanic requires it. This would prevent more than just the annoyance of trying to figure out who the MT is every single run.

That doesn't sound wise. What if you get someone undergeared who wants to MT and the person who really should be MT as OT? I could see a lot of potential for issues there.

I mean, you can't even queue if you're not the minimum ilvl. You do have a point about situations where the MT is completely new and/or hopeless; so maybe allow the 2 tanks to swap roles if that's what the group needs.

[DeaconMoore]

Can switch using Shirk if the mechanic requires it. This would prevent more than just the annoyance of trying to figure out who the MT is every single run.


I mean, you can't even queue if you're not the minimum ilvl. You do have a point about situations where the MT is completely new and/or hopeless; so maybe allow the 2 tanks to swap roles if that's what the group needs.

Ok, serious question: Do you even tank?

Your suggestions make me think you don't and if you need to change who the MT and OT is based on the needs of the group after the group is formed you've just defeated the purpose of your suggested changes.

Look, this is a mmo. The mmo stands for Massively Multi-player Online. So you play with a bunch of people online. Part of a game like that is social interactions. If that is a problem for you, either work on talking to people thru chat more, or find a different game that doesn't require you to talk to other people to sort issues out like who is going to MT the fight. A simple "Hey <t> want to mt or ot?" is not something that should be an issue. Macro it if you don't have a keyboard.

[Rowde]

Not sure how this would affect queues, but for any raids I think that tanks should have the options to queue specifically as MT or OT; and the roles will get some party window indicators so everyone knows exactly who the MT is.

If you queue as OT your provoke ability takes an enmity penalty, so you won't be able to use it to pull off the MT. If you need to tank swap then we can buff/adjust shirk to counter the penalty and allow the OT to provoke aggro until whenever the MT decides to provoke it back. Would require a little more MT/OT coordination then what would normally be required, but nothing too crazy.

This would get rid of that awkward "who's going to MT" moment at the beginning of every run; it would stop tanks from provoking back and forth mid fight for no reason and it would stop OT's from intentionally cleaving groups.

"No" to all this.

[Goji1639]

Ok, serious question: Do you even tank?

Nope, never once played a tank class in this or any game.

if you need to change who the MT and OT is based on the needs of the group after the group is formed you've just defeated the purpose of your suggested changes.

Doesn't defeat the purpose at all; switching roles wouldn't be needed the vast majority of the time, it would just be a contingency so the group isn't trapped if the person who queues MT is in completely over his head and the group can't clear the content with him.

Look, this is a mmo. The mmo stands for Massively Multi-player Online. So you play with a bunch of people online. Part of a game like that is social interactions. If that is a problem for you, either work on talking to people thru chat more, or find a different game that doesn't require you to talk to other people to sort issues out like who is going to MT the fight. A simple "Hey <t> want to mt or ot?" is not something that should be an issue. Macro it if you don't have a keyboard.

I'm aware it's an MMORPG, but that doesn't mean every stupid little thing should require a conversation. Let people queue for the roles they want to play, instead of making us all guess and/or figure it out at the beginning of every instance. Hell, I'd even be willing to pass on the provoke penalty and just take the separate queues as an aesthetic indication of who's going to MT.

There might be actual problems with my suggestion, though; but you really haven't mentioned any yet.

[Aurida]

There might be actual problems with my suggestion, though; but you really haven't mentioned any yet.

Well the problem is that it's both awful and unnecessary. You want to split tank queues and create an entire queue role specifically to enable off-tank mains that want to queue for a fight and not have any responsibility? There's an entire separate role for people that want to queue for a fight and then not tank the boss. It's called 'DPS'.

Anything else is going to require a conversation, and I realize that with you never having actually played a tank- the role for which you are making suggestions- that it might be completely lost on you that that conversation is easy and completely non-verbal in 95% of cases. The other tank puts stance up? Has better gear? Congrats, they're MT. It is an interaction with no difficulty whatsoever and does not require a mechanical or 'aesthetic' change.

[DeaconMoore]

Nope, never once played a tank class in this or any game.


Doesn't defeat the purpose at all; switching roles wouldn't be needed the vast majority of the time, it would just be a contingency so the group isn't trapped if the person who queues MT is in completely over his head and the group can't clear the content with him.


I'm aware it's an MMORPG, but that doesn't mean every stupid little thing should require a conversation. Let people queue for the roles they want to play, instead of making us all guess and/or figure it out at the beginning of every instance.

There might be actual problems with my suggestion, though; but you really haven't mentioned any yet.

1. Playing a tank class and actually tanking content are 2 different things.

2. Uh yes it does. If you que as OT and the MT sucks bad enough you have to MT when you wanted to OT the whole purpose of you queing OT just went out the window.

3. "Every stupid little thing" Yeah, you're probably a joy to be around. I'm beginning to understand why you don't want to interact with others so much. Also if you're not seeing the issues that have been brought up, you just aren't reading them and comprehending.

Here lets review them again for you.

First up provoke and shirk work fine as is. Your suggested changes to provoke hinder the tanks ability to do their jobs by making it harder for them to juggle aggro as needed.

Second you are splitting tanks into 2 groups and then at the same time not. What's the point? When combined with your provoke changes your adding in role changes too if needed because the other person isn't doing their job well enough or are horribly out geared. Congrats you pointlessly added an additional role that may or may not be your qued for roll.

Third if talking to others is such a hassle, this isn't the kind of game for you. Do yourself a favor and find a solo game to play instead. You will be happier.

[BigHoffie]

You rebutted your own initial premise, mate.

that doesn't mean every stupid little thing should require a conversation. .