8 man "nightmare" dungeons

[DPZ2]

the only one bringing up gear was you.n

Please show me where, in my original reply, I used the word 'gear'. You won't find it.

You assumed that was my entire point, but I specifically used the word 'loot' at the end because, well, with one or two lines of "make things harder" and multiple lines about all the neat treasure chests that one could get, it didn't seem like the challenge was the main point of the request. It still doesn't.

[QooEr]

Please show me where, in my original reply, I used the word 'gear'. You won't find it.

You assumed that was my entire point, but I specifically used the word 'loot' at the end because, well, with one or two lines of "make things harder" and multiple lines about all the neat treasure chests that one could get, it didn't seem like the challenge was the main point of the request. It still doesn't.

you brought up the "reward structure" of the game, along with "high end raids". the only reward structure in xiv that involves raids is BiS gear. What exactly where you referring to then?

We have a lot of other reward systems that are mostly cosmetic or completely self contained, and harder dungeons could be no different. deep dungeons, bozja/eureka minus the relics, the firmament and the kupons all have a variety of rewards with different rarities that dont affect "the reward structure" of the game in the slightest.


saying you dont want a kind of content because of its hypothetical rewards makes literally no sense

[ReiganCross]

SHB will be remembered (varying on stat cruntch effects) for having the worst dungeons in the game. Even if u hinder urself like say having no healer or only 1 dps it still mechanically malnourished. yoship stated a few times that 4 man content will never rival stuff like 8 man since they dont wanna strain the healer. thats fair and all but linear corridors where DPS and Tanks dont have any big responsibilities isnt the best format and if the content is that trivial whats the point of it? just make em solo instances

Yeah, the feeling I get from playing the Shadowbringer stuff is that "It's a nice story beat, but I wish I was inside of a dungeon right now." Hero's Gauntlet really cemented that for me, here's a dungeon that is all about Shadowbringers being cool but we had Treasure Coffers just popping out in the middle of combat because Dungeons must have Drops and I guess this is technically a Dungeon... Even though it is mostly just a scaled up Solo Duty.

I don't want the story focus to go away, I'll give you that, but at least ARR had actual Dungeons? Y'know, with a place in the map? They had to figure out where they were because people would be there to organize parties to go into the places, so you'd had the front yard of Haukke Manor or the entrances to Coil of Bahamut to at least FEEL like they were actual places? Now we're getting dungeon portals in the middle of a peaceful Eulmore just because the story started the dungeon there. It looks ridiculous.

[ItMe]

Hero's Gauntlet really cemented that for me, here's a dungeon that is all about Shadowbringers being cool but we had Treasure Coffers just popping out in the middle of combat because Dungeons must have Drops and I guess this is technically a Dungeon... Even though it is mostly just a scaled up Solo Duty.

We've had plenty of duties that were outside.
Did you also feel this way about, say, Bardams Mettle?

[Payadopa]

I'd take anything at this point. lol

[Shurrikhan]

Oh look. Someone is asking for the equivalent of Mythic+ dungeons again.

There really isn't any way to satisfy your request for better rewards without unbalancing the current reward structure of the game. And by that I mean high-end raiding.

General respawn locks are not a mechanic in M+. Difficulty does not increase over time or bosses killed in M+. You do not receive less boss loot per wipe to said boss in M+; you merely either time the run or you do not. M+ does not use double the standard dungeon party size.

The only connection between the two systems is that they would (1) be in dungeons and (2) ask for (and only past the halfway point or so for this suggestion) more than merely a "braindead" level of difficulty.

But hey, why bother to actually read if, on first instinct, something feels vaguely WoW-influenced. Just burn it all, right?

If the point is "challenge me", why ask for neater loot than one can get anywhere else?

Yet there's not a single mention here of the loot being unique. Hell, it doesn't even say it ought to be gear, rather than furniture. In fact "rarer", being a comparative, implies that it is already a randomly dropped item available either broadly or across dungeons in particular, none of which are gear related and therefore have nothing in conflict with "high-end raiding" or "the current reward structure" you placed this concept against.

_________________________

Now, there are a number of problems with this idea as packaged. That's understandable; it's first, spitball draft of a something with rather complex potential outcomes. But it's not M+, nor does it seem intended to be.

[DBriggs304]

Nah, not needed. This type of structure can be found in many other places/games. It's not needed in Final Fantasy.

[ReiganCross]

We've had plenty of duties that were outside.
Did you also feel this way about, say, Bardams Mettle?

Nah, at most Doma Castle felt like that during SB, but it was still fine. It's mostly ShB that made everything more cinematic and costed us actual location dungeons. GD is already more of a momment than a location, for example. And that was the pre-ShB one.

[Deliciou5]

Nah, at most Doma Castle felt like that during SB, but it was still fine. It's mostly ShB that made everything more cinematic and costed us actual location dungeons. GD is already more of a momment than a location, for example. And that was the pre-ShB one.

This is why i choose the narrative of diabolos primal nightmare realm, it fits into every "dungeon" type and even allows for permutations on these "memories".

Nah, not needed. This type of structure can be found in many other places/games. It's not needed in Final Fantasy.

Huh? Not needed in final fantasy? What are you talking about?

There are many different difficulties to many different pieces of content in the game.
(hard modes,extremes,savages,unreal,etc)

Not once was i considering other games when coming up with this idea.

Absolutely baffling to me.

I never played WoW for example, so when people mention it i just scratch my head at them.

If you have problems with mythic plus for example, why would i care about that? It's not something i even fully understand,
i am not asking for +15 levels of difficulty or w/e it is?

Just 1 extra tier:nightmare with it's own little story surrounding diabolos.

This goes in line with what they did for every piece of harder content like when you go from doing MSQ primals to extremes, remember during ARR extremes they had extra story that was unique that explained the primals increased power? Or how certain harder fights are exaggerated tales from the wandering minstrel?

My idea follows the same pattern they already laid out.

It's obviously not going to be implemented in the same way as other games, the smartest thing you could say is the flaws of that system(mythic plus) shouldn't be repeated, not throw the baby out with the bathwater and do away with the whole idea.

[Shurrikhan]

I'd take anything at this point. lol

Same, so long as it can breath some life (back?) into dungeons.