Can one truly be "carried" in an Ultimate Raid?

[Kolsykol]

It's hard to say how much of this bs is even actual FFXIV players to begin with, there's a lot of WoW players who are really salty that '' their '' Streamers are playing FFXIV and are posing as FFXIV fans and acting toxic to try and get them to quit.
Ofc there are FFXIV players who are assholes too but I've seen that as well and cases where they've straight up admitted to it.

In the end of the day if you're a FFXIV fan and are doing this then just staph it?
Be happy that these guys are breathing so much new life into the game, we have a freaking content drought and have for a really long time and yet the game is more popular than ever.
And a lot of it has to do with a lot of Streamers creating new interest in the game.

[Arbales]

I myself im progging Ucob for 2 months now, and i dont even think that my kill would be less worth then anyone elses or vice versa
And everyone talks about being carried or not, but why not care about the quality content we got throught it? All the memes and laughs and overall vibe was soo entertaining and funny.

[Curisu]

There is already a big difference in progging when you have only 1 player with clear exp in the group.

With 7 it is even faster.
He had to learn the fight like everyone else. The only difference is that 7 player looked at him and could point out his mistakes after every wipe
Also, because he was the only new person the total amount of wipes reduced drasticly what also reduced the total prog time.

It would have been a carry when he would been done after one evening and without him knowing any mechanic

[FatalFatalis]

You can clear UCOB with only 7 people so it's possible to get carried.
However, Rich wasn't just dead weight, he put effort and tried to learn the fight so I hope that counts something.

[Jettinson]

It was nice of him to experience Ultimate and react to it, he enjoyed and that's it.

Still does not beat him wiping on Baelsar's Wall, should have watched that. It was either peak comedy or peak frustration

[Lastelli]

Absolutely yes. Especially lvl 70 ultimates that have no dps check whatsoever right now and especially if you're a dps.

[LittleImp]

The definition of carried tends to vary from content to content in my experience, so it's always possible to get carried in some way. My rule of thumb is usually "If all eight people were playing at this persons level, would the party still clear?".

So did Rich get 'carried'? Yeah, definitely. He was out-dps'd by the tanks and struggled to keep his GCD rolling (as a phys ranged) while tunneling on mechanics. Rich himself is pretty open about this.

I'm happy for Rich's personal achievement, and think that they produced some amazing content with some of the best players in the game. Interest in Ultimate will definitely increase, which is always good for the Ultimate community. The amount of fighting and vitriol around this subject on other platforms is concerning, and both 'sides' honestly have some valid reasoning.

The important takeaway is that Rich's situation and experience were unique, and that anyone getting into Ultimate should not expect anything similar.

[DontReadThis]

I only consider it a carry when someone is being complete dead weight, like those people I sometimes get in random alliance raids who die to the first mechanic the boss does and refuse to accept any rezzes until the fight is over.

From what I've read, Rich actually was reading up on the fight and making an effort to learn the mechanics. I wouldn't consider that a carry, especially if the healers weren't constantly having to scrape his dead body off the ground every few seconds.

[CaptainLagbeard]

I would say Rich wasn't exactly carried through the raid, what I saw from the "progression"...

But considering he was doing it with 7 other people who have beaten it already and what seemed like a very experienced raid leader, he did very much have his hand held and was walked through everything, kind of skipping most the learning process for a fight.

[Liam_Harper]

It doesn't matter.

Multiple streamers discussed this and the general consensus was that no matter how you do it, people will claim you got carried, unless you make it so difficult for yourself (7 sprouts, completely blind, streamer has to figure out every mechanic alone, ect.) that you wipe endlessly for months in which case they'll claim you suck. So it's better to just make a group with 7 knowledgeable players and save yourself the frustration.

People love to crap on other people's accomplishments and absolutely hate when someone had an easier time with something than they did.

It doesn't matter. Sure his experienced group helped and he's not a world class raider, but he got through it and that's impressive. People who have exceptionally good raid leaders don't deserve clears less either. Good for him. Anyone analyzing whether he "deserves" the kill because he didn't suffer or handicap himself enough needs to move on.