the immersion problem made by glams

[Krotoan]

tolerate my froggy speedo glam

y'all think this is hilarious when you say these things to people.. but make one suggestion that allows me to see what I'd like to see on my own computer and watch the indignant comments fly.


Yes I do. I tolerate watching frog speedo and moogle bodied pigface musclemen with sandals and bikini bottom platemail topped warriors traipsing through all my story cutscenes involving other players. I watch them stomp about while I try to sit and enjoy an area, sitting right in front of me.

I have never said a blessed word to ANYONE about how I'd love it if they'd just ... not..

I believe I have held up my end of the tolerance equation.

Funny that others cannot. You have to tolerate that I'm going to purposefully dress my character as garishly as possible but I cannot tolerate the IDEA that you might not see me in all my metallic orange glory.

[Yma]

People are like this in real life too. How many times you hear something like "I don't like that person because of that hijab/bikini/piercing/tattoo/business suit".

It's OK to not like what someone is wearing. It becomes problematic when you want to control someones freedom of expression. If someone wants to go to raid the praetorium in a rabbit costume, I just assume they are some mad anarchist like the FF version of the Joker or the Penguin. I if am somehow offended by an outfit, I simply wouldn't interact with that person.

Also, the entire FF series has always had a mix of fantasy and modern, with huge technological city scapes and small rustic villages. There is no reason you wouldn't see someone wearing ultra modern or ultra traditional clothing.

[Lihtleita]

snip

heres the thing

advocating altering other peoples presentation to adhere to your interperetation of the setting is not tolerance. but even if it were, its not even really possible because either youre going to see people in weird, mismatching gear or youre going to see the frog suits anyway due to awful people like me. you cant change either of these facts.

the only way you would get your desired outcome (having players look like they belong in the setting and not like a bunch of fashion clowns), is forcing the client to only display certain gearsets on everyone (effectively making every character a clone, which is unsettling and not very immersive in my opinion), OR not displaying anyone who isnt an npc or the player character.

also, do we stop at glamours or do we make everyones character settings adhere to the setting too? personally it ruins my immersion that so many people play miqote and viera, two of the rarest eorzean races.....

so i'll say it again. tolerate my froggy speedo glam. i do not wear it to annoy you. i wear it because i like it and want others to know that i did the fates to earn it.
in exchange ill tolerate your catgirl.

[Krotoan]

heres the thing

advocating altering other peoples presentation to adhere to your interperetation of the setting is not tolerance. but even if it were, its not even really possible because either youre going to see people in weird, mismatching gear or youre going to see the frog suits anyway due to awful people like me. you cant change either of these facts.

the only way you would get your desired outcome (having players look like they belong in the setting and not like a bunch of fashion clowns), is forcing the client to only display certain gearsets on everyone (effectively making every character a clone, which is unsettling and not very immersive in my opinion), OR not displaying anyone who isnt an npc or the player character.

also, do we stop at glamours or do we make everyones character settings adhere to the setting too? personally it ruins my immersion that so many people play miqote and viera, two of the rarest eorzean races.....

so i'll say it again. tolerate my froggy speedo glam. i do not wear it to annoy you. i wear it because i like it and want others to know that i did the fates to earn it.
in exchange ill tolerate your catgirl.

And here's where I will stop. Because I've had this conversation ad-infinitum in the other thread:

This is a computer world where real world considerations like what someone is actually wearing and my choice of what I SEE is malleable. You can wear what you like, I can see what I like and we're both happy theoretically. There are solutions for every single one of your problems.




You can review how this played out:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ers-Glamour%29

The fact you posted "you will tolerate my.. " is antagonistically directed at those who wish not to see it. You could have remained silent yet you decided to poke fun at someone's request with the assertion that yes, it still has to be seen whether or not people would wish so. So I believe you have at least a modicum of satisfaction at the idea that you have "won" and someone else has "lost". Own it please.

I'm not interested in another 200 page thread. The conclusion is: Likely this will never happen. People like me who enjoy customization and personal world consistency will always be at odds with those who consider their character and it's presentation verboten to change even on mediums they will never perceive and the amount of work to make this happen , though not excessive, is better spent on things that will benefit more people.

[Eldevern]

Since it's not a pool, I don't have immersion problem though, and I'm a good swimmer anyway...


Yes? What? I exit? Okay

EDIT :
More seriously, there's something weird to see all these NPCs with so limited clothings but it would be far too costly to change it. In an ideal world, NPCs would change depending of the time, the weather, they would changes clothes etc. A time will come when MMORPG will have this kind of possibility (sort of Metaverse) but it needs to be planed from the beginning.

[MintnHoney]

It's funny how it only occurred to me recently, but, this sort of problem is actually a good reason why mods exist.

[Calevr]

Fashion in this game is making SE money. I think the vast amount of glamours available to players is also boosting server population. Role play is on the increase due to this.

[MilkieTea]

Since it's not a pool, I don't have immersion problem though, and I'm a good swimmer anyway...


Yes? What? I exit? Okay

EDIT :
More seriously, there's something weird to see all these NPCs with so limited clothings but it would be far too costly to change it. In an ideal world, NPCs would change depending of the time, the weather, they would changes clothes etc. A time will come when MMORPG will have this kind of possibility (sort of Metaverse) but it needs to be planed from the beginning.

Funny enough, Rowena changes clothes a lot!

[Kozh]

This is a game with mech suits and flying robots, and your immersion is broken because someone is able to wear a jacket?

Get over it. Glamour is a form of expression, you don't get to turn that off, everyone would look like they're wearing clown suits without it which is far more immersion breaking anyway imo.

Ironic that you're telling people to get over it, while you can't get over the fact that someone doesn't see you on your glam if such option is available XD

How selfish and narcissistic.

[Illmaeran]

Glams are glams and the aesthetic of the game, as far as character dress, is concerned is heavily influenced by anime. It's not hard to find anime and manga that combine fantastical elements such as magic in with modern era (Industrial Revolution onward) settings. Heck, the preponderance of anime/manga that have protagonists fighting with gigantic weapons wearing kimono, hakama, modern attire, maid outfits, school uniforms/sailor suits, business suits, bikinis, etc in the same world is huge.

To be fair, there are an equal, if not greater, amount of anime/manga where the characters wear period-appropriate outfits and armor. However, the point is one shouldn't be surprised that a Japanese game developer will make games heavily influenced by Japanese modern pop/nerd culture aesthetics.

Speaking of stark differences in attire bearing immersion, don't forget that Japan went through *significant* cultural change in the late 1860s. They went from Samurai and Geisha with early 1600s technology to RAPID Westernization/modernization within the space of a couple decades. It was common to see people in contemporary European attire next to people in traditional dress. That's something that we, in the West, didn't experience so it's not etched in our cultural identity.

TL/DR: Mish-mashed clothing styles is very common in Japanese pop culture and Japan went through a period where the populace were dressed in both Western and traditional Japanese attire for quite some time. We shouldn't expect a Final Fantasy game to not reflect those influences in ways that Western video games typically don't.