THis was a great post on reddit I thought the lore hounds should see it here as well.

[Archchancellor]

Is it just me, or does Kan-E-Senna have bigger guns than Merlwyb? Posted byu/Hikari_Sword

I couple of the post that I think I worth thinking about.

Beyond the joke, this actually makes sense. Under Merlwyb, Limsa's military might has been focused largely on small-scale and defensive naval combat; those are clearly ship's cannons, because that's the only thing they've got or need. They aren't the type to need to crack open city walls.

But Gridania, on the other hand? Not only are they the one with the most recent military conflict outside of with Garlemald (the Autumn War with Ala Mhigo, which was 'grandparents fought in it' years ago), not only are they the member of the Alliance that had an actual border with Garlean territories (Ala Mhigo, again), but Kan-e-Senna isn't actually as interested in pivoting to peacetime as Merlwyb is. I can totally believe that Gridania has scarier weapons of war stashed away than Limsa!

"the Autumn War with Ala Mhigo, which was 'grandparents fought in it' years ago"

For regular Hyur/Miqo'te/Lalafell/Roe, yes. For long-lived races like Elezen and Padjals, there are some individuals in-game who personally fought that war..

It actually reflects in their territorial situations.

Limsans we’re originally Pirates. They fought out on the open seas, and maneuverability and speed were as vital as firepower. I suspect to this day they are unmatched, and likely a nightmare Garlean sailors tell their kids to make sure they take up a different profession.

But on land? They struggle. They’ve lost ground to invading Sahagin, been unable to prevent the establishment of an Imperial Castra near two major settlements, and generally are forced to maintain multiple checkpoints just to try and keep things under control. Holding territory isn’t something they’re accustomed to doing, and it shows.

By comparison, the Gridanians have their borders pretty much locked down, despite sharing a border with Ala Mihgo and having Baelsar’s Wall right there. That wall wasn’t built to keep the Ala Mihgans in, you know.

The elementals help a ton, of course, but Gridania has also managed their beast tribes better, managing actual friendly relations with the Sylphs and Moogles, and more or less shutting the Ixal out entirely, forcing the Birdmen to set up shop in Coerthas instead. No Castra on Gridanian soil. Ironic for a nation without a native tank class, but Gridanians know how to play defensively.

This last quote also talks about the elementals I keep thinking about what would happen if Garlmeld invaded though the The Black Shroud. My guess is Woodsin on all the invaders.

[MikkoAkure]

The cannons from the reddit post are probably Ala Mhigan. You can tell by the purple and gold shields on them, which is a motif all over Ala Mhigan things.

The Autumn War was also over 100 years ago in 1468, no one is alive from that time. If the calamity hadn't happened, we would be in the year 1577/8 depending on who you talk to. The maximum age for an elezen is said to be 120, but per the writers, no one actually reaches maximum age for their race and medieval lifespans are in effect in this universe. While a few extraordinary or well-off characters can and do see old age, the average Eorzean dirt farmer would be lucky to see 50 regardless of race, but we don't see many of those types since they're not as interesting to populate the screen with.

The last quote is also wrong because Castrum Oriens and Baelsar's Wall are on ex-Gridanian soil. Gridanian borders used to extend all the way to the river. There's even an old Gridanian hamlet there and it's Gridania who takes over the area after the war is over, not Ala Mhigo.


Edit: Forgot to mention that the Woodsin isn't as big of a thing anymore as it was in 1.0. Unfortunately due to the calamity, the Elementals are not nearly as strong anymore and defense of the forest is completely on the Gridanians. That's why there's Ixal in the North Shroud logging trees and getting more bold, the Sylphs summoned Ramuh partly because of invaders and the inability for the forest to take care of them, and Garleans are making forays as well, scavenging equipment from their juggernaut wrecks from past battles.

Gridania is still definitely one of the more prepared countries since they've been at the doorstep of the empire, and before that, Ala Mhigo, but they're also not quite in the shape they used to be. Between Cartenau and the Calamity, the whole Eorzean Alliance probably isn't as strong as 5 years ago and the only reason we got as far as we did in the storyline is due to Garlean Civil War, willful mismanagement by Zenos, and the inclusion of equally depleted Ishargdian, Doman, and Ala Mhigan forces.

[Iscah]

it's Gridania who takes over the area after the war is over, not Ala Mhigo.

Has anyone taken the area "after" the war? Castrum Oriens seems to be frozen in the early stages of the campaign (as it was when we arrived there at the beginning of Stormblood) with a range of Alliance member armies present.

[MikkoAkure]

Has anyone taken the area "after" the war? Castrum Oriens seems to be frozen in the early stages of the campaign (as it was when we arrived there at the beginning of Stormblood) with a range of Alliance member armies present.

From the lore book:

Castrum Oriens: ...Now, it is held by the Order of the Twin Adder and jointly garrisoned by Alliance forces.

Considering that Gridania's borders went to the river like I mentioned, it makes sense for the book to call out the Adders specifically. It doesn't necessarily mean that the Alliance soldiers are immediately forced to leave. Besides, some of them are probably used for quests.

[Cleretic]

Hey, I wrote that first one!

I wasn't necessarily writing it super seriously, but it was a good chance to shine a light on the fact this wouldn't actually be super weird. Gridania is near the exact reverse of the temperament you expect from the aesthetic they put up. You expect 'elven forest hippies' like near every other setting with forest elves, and that's almost true, but... no, Gridania is not afraid to crack some skulls. Of all the core three city-states they're the most plausibly militaristic, with both the history to back it up and the overall nature of 'mess with us and you regret it' (even if they can't necessarily back that up these days as well as they could in 1.0). They might not own those cannons, but they are exactly the Alliance member I'd expect to have some scary war machine or technique that could tear apart some opposing forces before they knew what was going on.

The Autumn War was also over 100 years ago in 1468, no one is alive from that time. If the calamity hadn't happened, we would be in the year 1577/8 depending on who you talk to. The maximum age for an elezen is said to be 120, but per the writers, no one actually reaches maximum age for their race and medieval lifespans are in effect in this universe. While a few extraordinary or well-off characters can and do see old age, the average Eorzean dirt farmer would be lucky to see 50 regardless of race, but we don't see many of those types since they're not as interesting to populate the screen with.

I was slightly off the mark with it being 'grandpas fought in it' years ago, but given that Gridania is actually where a lot of the Wildwood elezen of Eorzea live and so presumably see long lives, not to mention the effectively-immortal Padjali and the ageless Elementals. Culturally speaking, Gridania are definitely still mad about it; in fact, that very fact comes up in the Stormblood Carpenter questline, and is the main focus of Stormblood Bard.

[thegreatonemal]

Hey, I wrote that first one!

I wasn't necessarily writing it super seriously, but it was a good chance to shine a light on the fact this wouldn't actually be super weird. Gridania is near the exact reverse of the temperament you expect from the aesthetic they put up. You expect 'elven forest hippies' like near every other setting with forest elves, and that's almost true, but... no, Gridania is not afraid to crack some skulls. Of all the core three city-states they're the most plausibly militaristic, with both the history to back it up and the overall nature of 'mess with us and you regret it' (even if they can't necessarily back that up these days as well as they could in 1.0). They might not own those cannons, but they are exactly the Alliance member I'd expect to have some scary war machine or technique that could tear apart some opposing forces before they knew what was going on.



I was slightly off the mark with it being 'grandpas fought in it' years ago, but given that Gridania is actually where a lot of the Wildwood elezen of Eorzea live and so presumably see long lives, not to mention the effectively-immortal Padjali and the ageless Elementals. Culturally speaking, Gridania are definitely still mad about it; in fact, that very fact comes up in the Stormblood Carpenter questline, and is the main focus of Stormblood Bard.

They aren't still mad about it. The entire point of the bard quest is to stop someone who picked now to bring it back up after the nation is free and is trying to rebuild.

[Cleretic]

They aren't still mad about it. The entire point of the bard quest is to stop someone who picked now to bring it back up after the nation is free and is trying to rebuild.

Actually, the Elementals confirmably are still mad, and this was a huge problem for the refugee situation after Garlemald took Ala Mhigo; it's why most of the refugees ended up trying to settle in Ul'Dah. And again, Stormblood Carpenter shows there's still some tension and animosity there among the populace, even if on paper they're supposed to be cool now.

[dreamfisher]

They aren't still mad about it. The entire point of the bard quest is to stop someone who picked now to bring it back up after the nation is free and is trying to rebuild.

I'm surprised that's all you took away from this questline.
The way I saw it, the Order of the Twin Adder is desperate to whitewash the past because there are embers smouldering which threaten, given the right catalyst, to burst into flame again.
In my opinion, this is a case of FFXIV doing what it does so well (well, sometimes; a bit less in certain post-expansion patches), which is introducing its politics in a nuanced and realistic way behind a dramatic visage.

As Cleretic said,

Stormblood Carpenter shows there's still some tension and animosity there among the populace, even if on paper they're supposed to be cool now.

[thegreatonemal]

I'm surprised that's all you took away from this questline.
The way I saw it, the Order of the Twin Adder is desperate to whitewash the past because there are embers smouldering which threaten, given the right catalyst, to burst into flame again.
In my opinion, this is a case of FFXIV doing what it does so well (well, sometimes; a bit less in certain post-expansion patches), which is introducing its politics in a nuanced and realistic way behind a dramatic visage.

As Cleretic said,

There's nothing to whitewash though, the general was killed in war the manner of his death doesn't really matter. The only reason the guy was trying to bring it to the forefront is because he was related to that general and was sore about it so his plan was to revel the truth of his death, posined instead of just dying of an illness in the hopes that other people would look down on the Ala Mhigans. We were trying to stop it on the off chance that it actually gain traction.

Also the carpenter quest has nothing to do with the war and more to do with the general dislike people have for the Ala Mhigan refugees for the past 20 years. Basically Elezens don't like anybody else in their forest. Elementals accept some of the ala mighans into forest. Xenophobic elezens gonna be xenophobic. The same type of thing happens with the WoL in the archer quest.

[WhiteArchmage]

I'm not surprised the Gridanians are prepared for war, not just because of the Autumn War but because of the Elementals.

These are people whose literal gods tell them to suffer no invaders in ther territory on penance of painful, wooden death. Conjurers only have the appearance of "Peace-loving Druids" but even their starting lore is "Sometimes you need to stone a <kupo!> to death in order to protect Nature.", even White Magic isn't all nice and fluffy Blood for the Blood Lily!

Basically, even if Kan-E is the most chill of the GC leaders, who is more concerned with aiding others, we have to remember these are greatly territorial people who have survived quite a few wars by themselves.