Hamlet defense feedback from a top 20 provisioner: Critical problems and solutions

[Kiara]

I was a top 20 provisioner for Hamlet Defense on Durandal and I wanted to give my complete feedback regarding the event.

For the supply phase I spent an unhealthy 12-18 hours turning in botany items. This was over a two day period, and I also spent a good chunk of time crafting while I waited to get out of botany fatigue. Despite this, I was only able to secure the #15 position, and being that I fell from position 12, down to 17, and was able to get back up to 15, I barely secured the spot.

What did top 20 provisioner do? Top 20 provisioner allows one to have a second chance at another item when talking to the Militia Captain. This is a chance, and not guarenteed. So after you spend the better part of your waking two days doing botany, you can't actually collect any reward unless you involve yourself for a third day. So in total, to receive your provisioner rewards you have to spend three total days completely focused...

The 3 days demanded of the provisioners is only good if people continue to do Hamlet Defense. As the day went on it became harder and harder to get players, because no one was getting rewarded despite putting in several hours of combined effort. Eventually it got to a point where I was throwing rag-tag combinations together trying to get a kill, but for the last 5-7 hours I didn't secure another defense, simply because the players were losing interest; on the very first day the content was available...

Problem 1:
Phase 1 has negative effects on your life in order to receive the reward; and if you don't make it in the top 20 for the extra chance, what's your motivation to turn in items?

Potential Solution 1:
Shorten Phase 1 to 24 hours.
Add thresholds players can cross to turn in items, once they turn in the maximum threshold their contribution to the hamlet is complete, and they secure the extra bonus. This can keep this a 2-4 hour event rather than a 2 day event; and encourages everyone to contribute - not just the players who have 3 days in a row available.

Problem 3:
Players aren't happy with the reward ratio at poorer performance levels. This will hurt the future of gatherers supplying because the adventurers aren't participating, and it will make players less likely to reach the current provisioning top 20.

Solution 3:
Increase the chance of reward to keep players motivated to participate; otherwise it's just going to collapse on itself.

Hi Platinum,

Fantastic post.

Very well thought out and I totally agree with you. I hope Yoshida-san & Team looks at your post and we see some improvements.

I participated in the 1st round (and saw you shouting for groups) and am participating in this 2nd round now (after the buzz has died down) and even trying to put in a solid ~6+ hours a day, for 2 days in a row, isn't enough to break the Top 20 on our server. You mentioned you had to drop 12 - 18 hours to get there. Yikes.

So without that (but still contributing a solid amount), we got in some solid wins (in the ~25,000 - 30,000 range), but everyone in our party received... Dark Matter for the entire day.

Of course drops should be rare, but hearing reports from Doctor Mog (breaking 40,000) and one of my friends (a Top 5 Contributor and breaking 40,000) getting NOTHING but Dark Matter is really discouraging.

Part of it is that there just aren't that many Militia Items right now and maybe they want to extend the "rarity" & Time Sink aspect of it, but it's quite sad to see how things are progressing.

I think most of your suggestions would resolve many of the issues with Hamlet Defense.

I definitely agree that having a Turn-In Threshold (where once you turn in enough Items, you "cross" that Threshold and are guaranteed a 2nd Chance at an Item), is MUCH healthier and more satisfactory than *having* to break the Top 20, *and* then participating in a winning Hamlet Defense just for a *chance* at a drop. With a Maximum Threshold, players can then reach that limit and then take a break and do other things. It also allows more players to get a chance at a 2nd / Better Loot Pool.

The amount of time investment to break the Top 20 (via Gathering & Crafting), and then spending a 3rd Day in a row spamming Hamlet Defense with wins just for a small chance at a Militia Item is too punitive and discouraging for many.

And as you say, the Drop Rates are too low. If ONLY the Top 20 Contributor gets a realistic chance at a drop, what incentivizes *anyone else* (especially those that are only Disciples of War / Magic) to participate and help out?

For Fun? Maybe a few times... then they'll get bored and stop.

I don't think anyone's asking for Dzemael Darkhold-like drop rates (basically 100% from Batraal), but the Drop Rates are practically nil right now and even being in the Top 20 doesn't guarantee you much of anything.

One last solution is an ongoing Cumulative Running Point System (so you Earn Points that you can trade in for Items). At least with a Point System EVERYONE has a chance to work their way towards a goal (some rare / nice Militia Item) and they know they're making progress & not wasting time.

Especially with a 50 Hour "Lockout" Period (Supply), before the actual Defense starts. There's more than enough of a "Time Sink" with this limitation already, without the need for infinitesimally small Drop Rates.

Here's to hoping we get some attention on this.

Thanks!

[Kiara]

Like looking at it like this one could say, no one will want to gather on Monday/Tuesday cause the battle is on a Wednesday, but Thursday Friday is better since it's on a Saturday. With such a short duration to the battle, to gather items to reach the Top 20 just to be able to make use of it for 3-4hrs just isn't worth it. In the concept that say you did gather on MT to get Top 20 then on Wednesday you get home at 6 and maybe get a party going on at 7, then you only have 5hrs to make use of it, if you have til 12am to do it lol.

The standby phase is just way to long compared to the battle phase and the fact that you lose everything that's gained is just a real kick to the nads lol. It should be more dynamic. Rather then a straight up 50/25. Have the supplies determine how long the fight goes on for starting at a base of 24hrs.

So say the cap was 2mil for rank 2. For every 1mil gathered the forces can fight on for another 12hrs. So not only does 2mil grant you Rank 2 but it also increases the duration of the fight to a total of 48hrs (maybe a cap of 72hr aka 3 days of hamlet active). If it was done like this then I could accept it being brought back down to 0 after all is said and done but to have to have people grind like this constantly every 50hrs just to the current top rank is pretty messed up. It's like they didn't even take the time to setup some sort of system to base how much should be lost after a battle since it is pretty ridiculous to think that ALL the materials are used up once the fight is over.

Hi Airget,

Great points. Definitely agree.

Spending so much time trying to break the Top 20, only to then have to spend the 3rd Day (if it's a weeknight), trying to reap the rewards of your hard work (and for many, they only get ~3 - 5 hours if they're lucky on a weeknight), is too punitive.

One way is as you mentioned, having the amount of contribution extend the Defense (Battle) Period more than 24 hours. (To get more time to try and win items.)

Or, another way might be to increase the Drop Rate for being Top 20 (or reaching a Max Threshold as the OP suggests), so that even though you can only invest 3 - 5 hours, at least, you have a better chance than what we have now.

[Sigmakan]

Agree 100% about having so little time to take advantage of all your efforts in getting into the top20. In fact, thats why I didnt even bother donating this round. I plan on saving up materials for the next round so I can atleast get a lot of runs in Friday night. My main concern is that I wont be able to find people to do Hamlet with . . . we shall see. I am also very skeptical of Hamlets getting to Lv2 once the other two are released.

[Airget]

Hi Airget,

Great points. Definitely agree.

Spending so much time trying to break the Top 20, only to then have to spend the 3rd Day (if it's a weeknight), trying to reap the rewards of your hard work (and for many, they only get ~3 - 5 hours if they're lucky on a weeknight), is too punitive.

One way is as you mentioned, having the amount of contribution extend the Defense (Battle) Period more than 24 hours. (To get more time to try and win items.)

Or, another way might be to increase the Drop Rate for being Top 20 (or reaching a Max Threshold as the OP suggests), so that even though you can only invest 3 - 5 hours, at least, you have a better chance than what we have now.

Ya a treshold idea would defintely work better then a Top 20, the competition it creates just makes the item sink to huge for it's reward gains, I do hope they touch upon this issue soon cause it it true that the way it stands now all Hamlet will be used for is regaining anima when you are running low on it lol.

But that's also where the idea of the other 2 Hamlets working in a completely different way come in, I do hope they have plans of making the party requirements for those different where the one now can be seen as a Normal party setup. The other one can be seen as a Light party and the 3rd one could be an alliance. At least in this way all 3 Hamelts would have their own unique flavor to them and people who complain about not enough 8+ events will finally have one they can do with others.

Agree 100% about having so little time to take advantage of all your efforts in getting into the top20. In fact, thats why I didnt even bother donating this round. I plan on saving up materials for the next round so I can atleast get a lot of runs in Friday night. My main concern is that I wont be able to find people to do Hamlet with . . . we shall see. I am also very skeptical of Hamlets getting to Lv2 once the other two are released.

Same here, I turned in once and when I saw that it reset completely I went... hm ya think I'll wait for a weekend lol. They gotta lower the sink a bit, at first the sink looked great because we weren't sure how it would turn out after the battle, but seeing as it resets completely just makes the whole ordeal fruitless when attempting to do it so you can gain that extra chance at an item..

As far as the treshold goes though I would say 200k is a good treshold to gain the benefits since it does seem a majority of people can aim that high, and if they can't do it in the process of a 50hr run then they can just stock up on items and turn them in when they know they are going to be doing a lot of runs.

In perspective 200k=20 stacks of NQ materials, 2 stacks of HQ materials, 2 stacks NQ crafted items of 20 HQ crafted items turned in.

That's still 200 synths at max in a 50hr process so being able to get 200k every other run wouldnt' be that imbalanced and as for materials if you were to get 5 of x materials a cut every 4 cuts, that's about 400 cuts if you were to get said materials 4/8 cuts which would still be 100 trees lol.

I think my math is right, hopefully they do something like this since the sink will still be there but it won't be as overclocked as it is now.

[Sartori]

We had 3 of our ls members in the top 20 and beat the defense phase I think around 10 times today. Nothing but dm and prism's from the chest. And only a few off hand tools for the people in the top 20 which is by no means nothing to write home about for stats...and one of our members was number one in the top 20 also.

I realize that they can't give a fantastic drop everytime but come on SE this is alot of hard work and time people put into this, lets give them what they deserve for their hard work, otherwise it's just another meh content...

[TheVedis]

We had 3 of our ls members in the top 20 and beat the defense phase I think around 10 times today. Nothing but dm and prism's from the chest. And only a few off hand tools for the people in the top 20 which is by no means nothing to write home about for stats...and one of our members was number one in the top 20 also.

I realize that they can't give a fantastic drop everytime but come on SE this is alot of hard work and time people put into this, lets give them what they deserve for their hard work, otherwise it's just another meh content...

14 runs today(so far), we had 3 drops so far with top 20s in the party

[Sartori]

14 runs today(so far), we had 3 drops so far with top 20s in the party

Anything good though?

[TheVedis]

Anything good though?

Sledgehammer, Mortar, and Bracelet(and lets be honest in the end though, a drop is a drop when they are all rare)

[LlenCoram]

I agree with Platinum. During the preparation phase I fished for 10 to 12 hours, both days, and secured a spot in 6th for the provisioner's list. I haven't done a stretch of fishing that long since I got my golden rod, and it definitely is unhealthy. The reward system doesn't help that fact at all. I know that when Limsa gets its hamlet, I'll be repeating my long stretches of fishing for a chance at that fishing hat, but I'm not looking forward to how it'll affect me.

Props to the OP. Very well thought out post.

[Duuude007]

I know that when Limsa gets its hamlet, I'll be repeating my long stretches of fishing for a chance at that fishing hat, but I'm not looking forward to how it'll affect me.

Wait, do you know how to get the various hats?!

Assuming they are guild-to-region specific, that should mean the Botany hat is already accessable...

More info prz!