I think I need go into great detail why tanks have bad game design

[Sedalia]

I feel need make new post and to explain why without straying from the path but coming at you at cold dark-facts

when you play a tank there abilities are put into two categories one is combat related categories. draw a circle on piece of paper then draw a line in-between both notice that circle is 50/50

what does this 50/50 present. what tanks do over all - Holding aggro with means of damage and other side damage mitigation. now new expansion we are using storm blood

a New System is added so now we have break circle into 3s we have just damage. taking 45% of the tank circle 35% damage migration and holding aggro only 10%

when we reach shadowbringers tanks some feeling like tanks completely why cause 70% of that circle is dps abilities 28% damage migration and 2% of it is holding threat.

we keeping raid utility out of question here cause as far i understand all tanks should offer something in class design saying that we leave that alone

can you see the issue here. there is an imbalance inflex damage abilities that really shouldn't be there but there are people who will defend such abilities cause why there fun to use. there not as boring as other counter parts even they aren't important when you tank ya sure its nice have nice damage numbers but let me remind you. that your tank first damage comes second.

If your a good tank you must see the truth in this inflex. your class is like a coke bottle fixing to explode upon opening don't mean that in a good way. good players be like well no need punish me i like a lot dps but other players be like hey please help tanks do more tank things

this game design limits what else tanks can do? watch is sad. never branch out try new things always one or the other new version of already existing ability. this is bad. why is this bad. simply put why give someone copy of something they already used 4 other expansions

time tank devs get creative . not just relay on animation team make there abilities look cool. tanks need have choice making in there kit. either stop that attack stop that ability its gonna hurt my team watch normally this would work on other attacks. but adding mechanics where tank has ability say nope would make fights interesting giving tanks 4th opinion not having low blow and shield slam be utterly useless in boss fight. would be a start however this issue that it would mean that you can skip phases that is not what im asking for. its simple fix really have bosses have attacks that kill whole party until the tank or melee dps uses low blow or leg sweep.

make a few bosses with dis design see if it works in this game. if not try something else now your not just hitting things now your starting feeling offering something to party now your being tank. this not only route they can take. tanks should have raid ulitity something put on allied party member and shield them from all incoming damage. wipe preventation. we already have few of these abilities already in the game

thinks that make up a tank are damage migration. threat. making things hit you. using cc to stop incoming attacks that can wipe or kill another member of your team. wipe preventation pushback, knock-up ground aoes that reduces damage to all that stand inside it at same time dealing over time. ground aoes that deal damage give heal over time effects to your allies. baseball bat dps/healer pushback dps lifesteal healing sustain

[Sedalia]

Here better explaining before I start let me state i don't know tanks be like ninja. but gonna point out few things. lets put paladin next to ninja.

your fast attack -> riot blade -> royal authority/rage of halone combo only damage. why is that your fight or flight cd its own single button. why doesn't royal authority give you damage bonus fight or flight does. just become you want more objective will not help you here watch one make this combo more engaging

riot blade by itself doesn't count simply cause only gives mp. before you say "wah that would be op" like to you look at other jobs that have abilities bond to there damage rotation doesn't seem broken to me one bit


do want to know why ninja is one of the best classes in game it simply cause rogue/ninja do not confuse the player by mixing stages of growth on the lifespawn of the ninja
1-50 you learn basics trick attack. hide your combo's your ninjustu gives you enough time and practice before you get heavenward content 50-60 then learn weaving dps skills in your dps rotation and keep huton active armor crush. it takes great care in teaching how to use the job well when you reach the that stage

Unfornately that can't be same for tank's your abilities are all over the place. jibbled like jigsaw puzzle. remember when dark knight first came out heavenwards was great class but boy it was a mess. paladins design back then wasn't as bad as it now. it gave you time learn these new abilities storm bringer came out it changed.

you see paladin had rework. the aoe was great idea over flash hell i love that ability no reason why we could keep the blind on are aoe or if not that watch had a cooldown circle of scorn would make sense of cos cause it has cd. and less lightly have dimishing returns

shadow bringers came out right. its just rense and repeat of the same skills. what do they offer just potency damage. look don't want the tanks be easy i dont take fun away from veteran players got see this as a problem

dps skills are nice. but isn't want tanking is about. we wanted exciting rotation we got that we have we have 2 123 rotations and 1-2 aoe rotation. thats perfectly fine. they cross the light when added holy spirit holy circle. and "Im a ultima on a paladin out dps a blm" what now am caster dps too? seriously? you could given us nice shield abilities we so post to be shield and broad. shield smash is awesome took away shield swipe giving ability anything but tank

[OdinelStarrei]

Why are you making so many topics?

[Jirah]

TLR but if my pattern recognition is correct, this is probably moot...probably Idk your topics seem very erroneous at best and incomprehensible at worst

[Sedalia]

TLR but if my pattern recognition is correct, this is probably moot...probably Idk your topics seem very erroneous at best and incomprehensible at worst

I give up at this point its like trying teach rocket science to a monkey to awesome your question my last post subject was different discussion went different direction so made a post talkin bout current direction of that post instead having replies on stuff thats already been discussed and over with

[Jirah]

I give up at this point its like trying teach rocket science to a monkey

Rocket science? Your not a visionary your just spewing word vomit

[ItMe]

when you play a tank there abilities are put into two categories one is combat related categories. draw a circle on piece of paper then draw a line in-between both notice that circle is 50/50

Can you provide your drawing?
My circle is not coming out 50/50...

[Mikey_R]

The very first argument you used in the first topic I saw was.

Tanks don't use mitigation abilities, they should be removed and your 123 combo should automatically apply stacking mitigation up to 50%.

Noone wants that. That isn't an issue with bad design, that is an issue with bad players that can only be fixed at the player end.

You then backtrack that and say tanks have too many DPS abilities.

They have far fewer than an actual DPS and their rotations are much simpler so that they can focus more on the tanking.

You have now said that tanks should have more control over the boss, stuns, interrupts etc.

YES, that is what most tanks want, more control over the boss and it's actions...HOWEVER, not at the cost of dumbing down tank gameplay. Tanks are fine where they are in the mitigation/damage skills department, but because everything is already so simple, it need another layer.

Also, how is tank levelling a jumbled mess? You say HW DRK was bad, but that is considered the best itteration of DRK. You say PLD abilities change each expansion so you dont get a chance to learn them, however that is not true. You start with Fast > Riot > Rage, you then add in Goring blade every 3, Rage gets upgraded to Royal, you gain a magic phase, which you use between Goring Blades, you get Atonement which replaces one of your royal authority combos, then yo uget a magic finisher. It all just comes to gether quite neatly really.

[Beddict]

Can you provide your drawing?
My circle is not coming out 50/50...

Yeah I got nothing for you there. I am guessing they mean draw a circle, put a line through it and voila, 50% of Tank gameplay is DPS, 50% of Tank gameplay is Mitigation. I think. I dunno, two lines later they then talk about their new system:

a New System is added so now we have break circle into 3s we have just damage. taking 45% of the tank circle 35% damage migration and holding aggro only 10%

A brilliant new system where a full circle adds up to 90%, and the remaining 10% is presumably dedicated to learning their aforementioned rocket science, maybe to help in deciphering all the broken English in the post.

[Furious]

I give up at this point its like trying teach rocket science to a monkey to awesome your question my last post subject was different discussion went different direction so made a post talkin bout current direction of that post instead having replies on stuff thats already been discussed and over with

Your posts are often verging on incomprehensible, and those bits that do make any sense in terms of actual English sentences still have very little relevance to FFXIV that can be garnered. You aren't a misunderstood genius, besides inside your mind. Since you're posting on a character with a maximum level of 51, there isn't any evidence that you should be given even a scrap of a benefit of the doubt, and while I would usually attribute such terrible and incomprehensible language structure to English being a language other than your first, I'm not actually convinced that is the case with you.

If it IS the case that English isn't your first language, please take the feedback that your ideas are being conveyed in a nearly incomprehensible manner a lot of the time if your target audience are native English speakers.