Controversioal Changes to Monk

[IruruCece]

I'm going to bow outta this one. It is obvious I am not dealing with normal people, if they think removing some arbitrary positional requirements are the same as removing hotkeys.

Simply blown away by the way some players think on these boards...

It's far, far more abnormal to accuse other people of brain problems because they disagree with your opinions about a job you don't even main.

"Normal" people play the jobs that match their preferences and have fun with what they like.

Potency is a intangible measure and isn’t a good counterclaim for removing anything for the sake of a invisible number that can mean anything, but I agree with your claim. Jobs have their fans and their identity and shouldn’t be smothered for the sake of broad appeal, ie Dark knight or Machinist which are sadly positive examples of this.

MNK May have its identity but push comes to shove, broad appeal will always be the victor at the expense of its soul. If MNK is remade in a drastic way that is dense it’ll get attention and fans will overshadow the old mains.

This argument gets trotted out time after time, even when the actual player counts in endgame content doesn't remotely agree with it.

Monk has been simplified over the course the Shadowbringers, from start to end, and that hasn't lead to more people taking Monk into Ultimates or Savages. Simplification did not increase the appeal in that regard, and if anything, the numbers of people taking Monks into high-end content have dropped down further. At best, we've had an increase in the number of players who "kinda like the aesthetic" of the job but don't actually take it anywhere challenging hop onto the forums with surprisingly regularity saying "this one neat trick" to make the job more popular.

The bottom line is that despite all the changes, Monk is one of the higher performing DPS in the game. It's simpler than ever to play. It offers a good buff to other players in a wide variety of comps. Yet it still is one of the least played end-game jobs. Complexity isn't the problem here, and neither is performance.

Frankly, I've seen a lot of people just give up on it because SE more or less has given up on the job as we knew it, and the GL removal is a blood-soaked band-aid on a festering, gaping chest wound of problems that have built up over every single expansion since vanilla. Their insistence on "cool" unskippable cutscenes in the middle of boss fights practically confirms that the developers never once even considered how that would affect Monk until after the fact, and GL's removal is a loud, unprompted "Oops."

Removing positionals might appeal to the casual player on paper, but we already know that every other change meant to do that has roundly failed to accomplish that goal in practice.

[Neoyoshi]

Mnk’s core mechanics are Positionals and GL.
Now GL gone and you want positionals gone too ?
Then Mnk ain’t Mnk anymore.
Just stupid boring bare-handed fighter.

I'm hoping that the dev team that is handling the Monk rework has something big up their sleeves, because I'd love to see my favorite job be that job everyone wants to play again.

[Kahnom]

I'm hoping that the dev team that is handling the Monk rework has something big up their sleeves, because I'd love to see my favorite job be that job everyone wants to play again.

Agreed but I’m not gonna expected anything at this point.
We all have suffered too many disappointments far too many times already.

[FoxCh40s]

It's far, far more abnormal to accuse other people of brain problems because they disagree with your opinions about a job you don't even main.

"Normal" people play the jobs that match their preferences and have fun with what they like.



This argument gets trotted out time after time, even when the actual player counts in endgame content doesn't remotely agree with it.

Monk has been simplified over the course the Shadowbringers, from start to end, and that hasn't lead to more people taking Monk into Ultimates or Savages. Simplification did not increase the appeal in that regard, and if anything, the numbers of people taking Monks into high-end content have dropped down further. At best, we've had an increase in the number of players who "kinda like the aesthetic" of the job but don't actually take it anywhere challenging hop onto the forums with surprisingly regularity saying "this one neat trick" to make the job more popular.

The bottom line is that despite all the changes, Monk is one of the higher performing DPS in the game. It's simpler than ever to play. It offers a good buff to other players in a wide variety of comps. Yet it still is one of the least played end-game jobs. Complexity isn't the problem here, and neither is performance.

Frankly, I've seen a lot of people just give up on it because SE more or less has given up on the job as we knew it, and the GL removal is a blood-soaked band-aid on a festering, gaping chest wound of problems that have built up over every single expansion since vanilla. Their insistence on "cool" unskippable cutscenes in the middle of boss fights practically confirms that the developers never once even considered how that would affect Monk until after the fact, and GL's removal is a loud, unprompted "Oops."

Removing positionals might appeal to the casual player on paper, but we already know that every other change meant to do that has roundly failed to accomplish that goal in practice.

Wait till I tell you what they did with healers.

As us Healers mains know, balancing for the lowest common denominator is a horrible thing they love to do. I've felt for Monk mains since 3.0 really, and watch every job trailer with genuine hope you guys will finally get your just desserts, cake, and be able to eat all of it to.

I love the job myself, though was no where skilled enough to take it into higher stuff and really enjoyed watching high level players just literally melt things while I was healing. It was better than TV really.

I'm really hoping Endwalker works out for Healers as much as I do it works out for Monks, because GD do you guys deserve at least one really good win in the books.

[Kolsykol]

I'm going to bow outta this one. It is obvious I am not dealing with normal people, if they think removing some arbitrary positional requirements are the same as removing hotkeys.

Simply blown away by the way some players think on these boards...

They're not arbitrary...

Maybe be a tad bit humble to the fact that a lot of us here are probably a lot better informed and at actually playing MNK than you and have played them and seen every iteration of them since ARR ( or even 1.0 ).
Just because you like MNK aesthetically doesn't mean that you're some expert on the Job.

It gets very tiresome too having people who just chime in trying to give their ideas about reworks when they quite apparently don't understand the Job or its identity.
Especially since the devs read the forum or so people say at least.
Maybe they shouldn't...

[Kahnom]

This is MNK’s history from my memories.

2.0 - High risk, High reward.
Not much support skills to help with wrong positionals and harsh punishing for dropping GL but-
your dps will be high as long as you’re doing positionals right and tried your best to not drop the GL.
Pretty engaging gamplay, I liked it.

3.0 - Got many support skills that help maintaining GL but completely got overshadowed by DRG’s Litany and their pierecing debuff.

4.0 - Started to get useless skills but 60 sec Perfect Balance was sweet and more importantly , the Tornado kick openner.
People really got excited about Tornado kick openner because it was refreshing, it was something new that MNK actually experienced.
Most of us thought that this might be the evolution for future MNK but NO…. Tornado kick was not intened by the dev. team so it was gone.

5.0 - Even more useless skills and finally removed the Gl. I was really mad back there and wondering Why they added GL4 in first place, just to removed it later.
I can’t see what direction MNK’s gonna take anymore, to be honest, and thanks to that I had finally bid farewell to my long Main job.

6.0 - Not gonna surprise if MNk’s rotations are still the same as before, no new weaponskill for more combo branch.
Not gonna surprise if they finally remove the positionals.
Not gonna surprise they add Touch of Death as new skill (LoL) ……

If anything good came out of quitting MNK, its probably a good opportunity to change my melee main.

[Kolsykol]

This is MNK’s history from my memories.

2.0 - High risk, High reward.
Not much support skills to help with wrong positionals and harsh punishing for dropping GL but-
your dps will be high as long as you’re doing positionals right and tried your best to not drop the GL.
Pretty engaging gamplay, I liked it.

3.0 - Got many support skills that help maintaining GL but completely got overshadowed by DRG’s Litany and their pierecing debuff.

4.0 - Started to get useless skills but 60 sec Perfect Balance was sweet and more importantly , the Tornado kick openner.
People really got excited about Tornado kick openner because it was refreshing, it was something new that MNK actually experienced.
Most of us thought that this might be the evolution for future MNK but NO…. Tornado kick was not intened by the dev. team so it was gone.

5.0 - Even more useless skills and finally removed the Gl. I was really mad back there and wondering Why they added GL4 in first place, just to removed it later.
I can’t see what direction MNK’s gonna take anymore, to be honest, and thanks to that I had finally bid farewell to my long Main job.

6.0 - Not gonna surprise if MNk’s rotations are still the same as before, no new weaponskill for more combo branch.
Not gonna surprise if they finally remove the positionals.
Not gonna surprise they add Touch of Death as new skill (LoL) ……

If anything good came out of quitting MNK, its probably a good opportunity to change my melee main.

Am I just totally misremembering things or didn't we have an interrupt/ silence that required you to be in Raptor form lol?
Or was One Ilm Punch always a stun?
I dunno why but I very strongly remember back in ARR that it was an interrupt and that I thought it was the most bizarre thing ever.

I've seen a lot of ppl say that they want Touch of Death to come back.
It was a pretty boring skill tbh...

I actually think that the base skillset of MNK right now plays pretty well but it does feel empty and like we need something added on top of it especially after the removal of GL.
But the overall base gameplay is fine imo, it just feels like we're playing SAM without the finishers and with the OGCD being a charged up skill instead of a Kenki spender.
And a lot of the animations also feel incredibly outdated imo.
Demolish and Dragon Kick looks and feels great but the rest rly feel like they're from ARR.

Edit: Wait... I looked it up and apparently One Ilm Punch was like Shaman's Purge in WoW lol.
They changed it into a stun later.

[VentVanitas]

Still trying to cope that the MNK skill seen in the benchmark isn't just AoE Tornado Kick...

[Mikey_R]

Am I just totally misremembering things or didn't we have an interrupt/ silence that required you to be in Raptor form lol?
Or was One Ilm Punch always a stun?
I dunno why but I very strongly remember back in ARR that it was an interrupt and that I thought it was the most bizarre thing ever.

One Ilm Punch was always a stun, Arm of the Destroyer used to have a silence attached to it. Stormblood changed One Ilm Punch to be able to stun regardless of the enemies resistance to it.

[Kahnom]

Am I just totally misremembering things or didn't we have an interrupt/ silence that required you to be in Raptor form lol?
Or was One Ilm Punch always a stun?
I dunno why but I very strongly remember back in ARR that it was an interrupt and that I thought it was the most bizarre thing ever.

One Ilm Punch was a joke and doesn’t even worth mentioning.
Even useless than current Anatman.
Back in ARR days though , T1 mini boss, the ADS thing, if there was no BRD in the grp, MNK had to use One Ilm Punch to stun the boss or something.
so ridiculous.