Controversioal Changes to Monk

[dezzmont]

Hard disagree, again. GL wasn't a punishment mechanic in the least. It was incredibly easy to maintain even under duress...

How easy or not it is to maintain isn't what punishing means.

Burd sumarized it way better than I could though: It isn't that you can lose GL that makes it punishing, plenty of jobs have that. It is because the options for Monk to recover GL are really bad (and they need to be because its sorta part of the identity of GL compared to every other job buff). Losing GL is about as intense a punishment as losing Enochian (about 40% of your DPS), but losing Enochian may affect you for as little as one cast if you didn't make too many mistakes in the fight: You can recover from whatever mechanic sent you to scatter and get right back into it with full potency. Meanwhile, GL is out 40% of its DPS for about 15-20 seconds no matter what you do, and you need to maintain uptime to get it back. Not to mention MNK has an actual complicated rotation while BLM is basically 4 buttons. There is just a really good reason people don't whine about Enochian (which is nearly identical to GL besides the fact it forgives you once every 30 seconds and actively downgrades your rotation to really tell you that you mucked up) and GL.

PLG is a starter job, and I suspect the reason they nuked it so fast is because the sheer willingness MNK has to dumpster you with no recourse (even if it is in theory easy to avoid) probably isn't great for retention. The decision to gut Monk without a plan to replace GL with anything was a pretty extreme one, and that speaks pretty heavily to it not being a 'forum dweller bellyacher' problem and way more a 'We are noticing a LOT of players who started as PLG quitting without subbing by 50 on the Free Trial' problem.

[Kolsykol]

Tbh I don't care if something is punishing or difficult.
What matters to me is whether it's fun or not.
And also for it to be rewarding, something can be punishing and/ or difficult but also unrewarding or it can be rewarding.
I wouldn't say that GL felt rewarding tho.

On the matter of GL I honestly don't have much of an opinion other than that because we didn't really get anything back to replace it MNK feels empty without it.

[Garnix]

On the matter of GL I honestly don't have much of an opinion other than that because we didn't really get anything back to replace it MNK feels empty without it.

This! 100%!
GL did not add much to the MNK gameplay mechanics IMO, and is better as a trait.
But the fact that nothing else was added makes the job gauge feels almost as lackluster to manage as the PLD's.

[Powercow]

But the fact that nothing else was added makes the job gauge feels almost as lackluster to manage as the PLD's.

Hey now, Paladins have to decide between using theirs for normal reduction or saving it for dual tankbusters, or for extended periods of incoming damage. This is caused by Paladins being able to bank up two charges' worth of actions.

Monk push button. Monk smash. Ooga booga. No waste meter. Smash button.

[Jirah]

Honesty GL should just lost one stack instead of everything before they decided to scrap it

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

Honesty GL should just lost one stack instead of everything before they decided to scrap it

That is... A great idea...I feel like a dummy now.. I never thought of that before... >.>;

[SpeckledBurd]

That is... A great idea...I feel like a dummy now.. I never thought of that before... >.>;

It's one of many ideas that have been recommended repeatedly over the last several years. I recall people suggesting it in Heavensward.

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

It's one of many ideas that have been recommended repeatedly over the last several years. I recall people suggesting it in Heavensward.

So I read.. noted... I made a further edit to my earlier post on Page 10, for this. My thanks, Jirah and SpeckledBurd.

[ssunny2008]

'We are noticing a LOT of players who started as PLG quitting without subbing by 50 on the Free Trial' problem.

If that would be the case, then it´s not a MNK or PLG issue, it´s a game issue.

A lot of ppl come from different MMORPG´s caused by game changes or content lacks. They try FF14 and get fast bored. There is not even near a challenge involved in the MSQ and the progress takes ages. Until lvl 30 you´ve like 3 skills to use on any class and it doesn´t get better with level 50. Even the dungeons are no great experience when you´ve played similar games.
At the end you´re going to reach castrum, which shows a clear middlefinger to the gameplay experience.

I´ve had a couple of friends trying this game with different classes. All of them had the same experience and the exact words have been: "Well, it´s ok, but i don´t get warm with it."
Melees bring atleast something to the gameplay with their positionals even on low level. But the rest? Spamming 1 - 4 buttons pre level 70 without taking care about ressources or anything else?! Cutting Tanks, healer, cards or GL didn´t make things better, it made them even worse.

[dezzmont]

Snip

No, it would 100% be a Monk problem if people who started PLG/MNK switched jobs or stopped playing at a disproportionate rates. Like that is about as objective proof that 'there is a problem with monk' as there could be. If you think the devs seeing say... a 30% higher quit rate on one job doesn't indicate a problem with that job, but rather the entire rest of the new player experience, despite the fact it isn't affecting other jobs, you are basically saying no evidence could convince you there is a problem with monk, which means your arguing on belief rather than facts.

At the end of the day this is settled. You can shout about how Monk was fine and they should have done any other number of changes to GL, and some may in fact make a lot of sense, but there clearly was enough of a measurable problem to warrant truly dramatic measures mid-patch that indicate this is not, in fact, 'new player whining' and no amount of nostalgia for GL will bring it back. It is already been settled, the verdict was GL was guilty of the crimes people accused it of, and it is a bit late to turn back time on its execution.

If you continue to insist there were not problems with it, or that they were fixable, or something people could work to overcome, that is your right. Opinions are subjective, I wouldn't dare say 'People who enjoyed old Monk are liars.' However, 1: We have actual data, not just random forum posts that show this isn't a widespread belief (ex: The Stormblood Job Satisfaction Survey) and 2: Insisting that it was a minority of uninformed whiners complaining about GL who just needed to 'git good' runs counter to every bit of evidence we have on how Monk was perceived by the majority of the community who does not participate in the forums.