Controversioal Changes to Monk

[VentVanitas]

MNK doesn't suffer from being "too punishing." That exact misconception is what LED to Greased Lightning being deleted and promptly wasting 6 years of development time.

[Mikey_R]

Over the years, Monk dev time had seemed to be, what can we do with Monk? I know, more GL upkeep abilities, they keep complaining about it dropping off, so they obviously need more.

It has been said countless times, but from HW onwards, Monk has just stagnated. It never really got anything new, it was more of the same, for 2 expansions. This is one of the reasons why the TK rotation was a thing. People worked out how to get a small amount fo extra damage, but it required alot of thinking and preparing, which is what poeple wanted. Once positionals are muscle memory, there really isn't anything else to worry about.

For the past 2 expansions, the job hasn't evolved, we are still HW Monk in ShB and that is the main issue here.

[SpeckledBurd]

MNK doesn't suffer from being "too punishing." That exact misconception is what LED to Greased Lightning being deleted and promptly wasting 6 years of development time.

I mean it did suffer from Greased Lightning being too punishing, but it wasn't a fault of it being a buff on a timer. It was because Monk's options for recovering it were designed to be terrible this expansion out of a fear of us ever using Tornado Kick on top of the actually decently effective one becoming a poor man's Meikyo Shisui due to the devs not considering how Monk's kit came together when removing physical resistance's from the game.


That said, even keeping GL probably would have meant that the last 6 years of development would be a waste. To give Monk parity with other jobs it would need a "Max GL" button on a 30 second cooldown and that automatically makes everything to upkeep GL pointless, on top of still requiring Tornado Kick to be changed if they don't want stacks spent on it. That speaks more to how poorly its skills have been designed over the last several years than anything though.

For the past 2 expansions, the job hasn't evolved, we are still HW Monk in ShB and that is the main issue here.

We've regressed to sub Heavensward levels at this point. At least ARR/Heavensward Monk had three dots to juggle. All we've got now is Tornado Kick as our Steel Peak and Howling Fist with an RNG cooldown.

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

Mnh... Since the title is controversial changes, it should be fine to share one of my own may or may not be a controversial change ideas about the Monk... Proper Greased Lightning, I think, will never come back, and we are stuck with the dull trait, but I did have my own idea, before 5.4 did that ugly trait update, about a "fix" for Greased Lightning's main issue, that it could not persist through moments when bosses can not be attacked...

First, the third action of a combo still grants a Greased Lightning stack, but stack duration will be increased up to a maximum of (insert what ever number can persist through moments when bosses can not be attacked) seconds, while the third action of a combo will neither grant the full Greased Lightning stack duration, nor refresh the duration to the full duration.
Instead, the first third action of a combo grants only 10 seconds to Greased Lightning stack duration, while the third action of a combo after the first, will extend the duration of Greased Lightning stacks by 10 seconds, up to what ever maximum duration would solve the problem.

I chose to design Greased Lightning in this manner, because I think that it would be "better" than if it were brain-dead level of almost not possible to NOT upkeep and maintain, as seen with the Warriors' Storm's Eye or the Dark Knight's DarkSide.

Also, keep in mind that even at a (super) slow 2.5 GCD, that would be 7.5 seconds to gain 10 seconds, so as long as the Monk keeps their combos in flow, it would be easy enough to build up to, and stay at, the new maximum duration, while building up to that new maximum would be "essential", for Greased Lightning stacks to not be lost when ever bosses can not be attacked.

Side-note I: In the case of 10 seconds every combo being "too generous" or "too easy", it could even be just 7 or 8 seconds, to make the stack maintenance, and to reach the maximum duration, a little more difficult.

Side-note II: I think that it would also be ideal, if the fourth Greased Lightning stack is not restricted to and locked behind any action, which was Fists of Wind back then, and only be level-locked, like the second and third Greased Lightning stacks, while the Monk unlocks the fourth Greased Lightning stack at a much lower level than waaaaay up at Lv76.
Since Greased Lightning II is unlocked at Lv20 and Greased Lightning III is unlocked at Lv40, how about the Monk unlocks Greased Lightning IV at Lv60?

Related idea: A bit of a dare idea, in the case that the new duration maximum would be some ridiculous max like a full minute or some long time. What if the Monk would also be able to "spend" seconds off of the Greased Lightning duration, as a second resource along with Chakra?

First(?) Addition: A idea(not my own idea), worth mention. If the duration of Greased Lightning runs out, just one stack of Greased Lightning is lost, rather than all stacks of Greased Lightning are lost. / My own thought on this: after the one Greased Lightning stack is lost, the duration of the Greased Lightning stack/s that remain/s, defaults to 10 seconds.

[Jirah]

MNK doesn't suffer from being "too punishing." That exact misconception is what LED to Greased Lightning being deleted and promptly wasting 6 years of development time.

Ehhhhh I agree on GL being removed was very pointless but MNK would’ve benefited a streamline process with GL rather than deleting it, hate to be a broken record but this worked wonders with Dart arts , ammunition, and Deck skills. devs are way to eager to delete what they can fix

[Kolsykol]

Tbh I don't care if something is punishing or difficult.
What matters to me is whether it's fun or not.
And also for it to be rewarding, something can be punishing and/ or difficult but also unrewarding or it can be rewarding.
I wouldn't say that GL felt rewarding tho.

On the matter of GL I honestly don't have much of an opinion other than that because we didn't really get anything back to replace it MNK feels empty without it.

[Garnix]

On the matter of GL I honestly don't have much of an opinion other than that because we didn't really get anything back to replace it MNK feels empty without it.

This! 100%!
GL did not add much to the MNK gameplay mechanics IMO, and is better as a trait.
But the fact that nothing else was added makes the job gauge feels almost as lackluster to manage as the PLD's.

[Powercow]

But the fact that nothing else was added makes the job gauge feels almost as lackluster to manage as the PLD's.

Hey now, Paladins have to decide between using theirs for normal reduction or saving it for dual tankbusters, or for extended periods of incoming damage. This is caused by Paladins being able to bank up two charges' worth of actions.

Monk push button. Monk smash. Ooga booga. No waste meter. Smash button.

[Jirah]

Honesty GL should just lost one stack instead of everything before they decided to scrap it