Thread: What if in 7.0 they do what gw2 do for new clases

Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Specialization

In short, an elite specialization is a new set of traits and skills for a job that gives you access to a new weapon and fundamentally changes how the job plays. In FF14 it would be the equivalent of letting a Warrior use a Staff and fighting in a way different from both WHM and WAR.

Just sounds like a spin on the Warrior in FF11, it could use pretty much all weapons and weapon skills related to it.

Sounds like they want something similar to FFXI where jobs could all use multiple weapons and the game just had a hidden rating system for each weapon and spell type that effected the proficiency cap it could reach. Jobs however generally stuck with the 1-2 weapons they had an A rating in since lower ratings generally required a considerable accuracy investment unless you were fighting things of equal or lower level.

I wouldn't mind some more individual weapons that blur the lines a little. Like the mining pick pld sword, hammers for warriors etc.

But this system I don't think would translate over so well. The GW2 thing, and WoW's talents/spec options, work in those games because they were designed with them in mind. I think working these back into the existing jobs would be too much work to do, and do WELL, compared to them being able to just add new jobs.

As an ex gw2 player, no.
I do wish SMN used a staff like FFX, rather than a book.

Two additional thoughts, to try and steer things in a more positive direction:

1) Anyone have a good idea of what a second "scouting" job could be? Seems like the deliberate separation of NIN gear from MNK/SAM might point toward where the devs think they can expand jobs.

2) Someone suggested "Judge" as a potential job in another thread and I think it would actually be a solid choice for an out-of-the-box design similar to GNB being an ode to VIII/XIII. Dual-wielded swords/daggers/maces that can combine into a staff. Some "rule" debuffs, make it function as kind of a time mage/green mage.

The system can work, in other games, but I think a lot of people have already said why it wouldn't be that good for here unless we were seeing some maaajor changes to the game (in order to properly facilitate whole new skill system and tangibly interesting choices).

With that said, for fun, I'm sure we could imagine a job that might do this. Like taking the FFXV swords, axes, shields, etc, flying and floating about, you might be able to wield many spiritual weapons and changing your main weapon would shift some of your kit around. Noctis the job lol. Fun part of that is it could theoretically be any role you wanted to design it for, as it'd be a mostly physical. non-elemental, psychic based motif with loads of weapons to call art from.

Or maybe they might make it FFXIV's Onion Knight, as a limited job, literally get to slot in different weapons (that then 'literally' show up in your spell arts). Switching to different main weapon causes you to switch to different set of skills, while 'background' skills are based on the entirety of your selection (so some skills are determined by your loadout in general and some are determined by which weapon you're 'maining' at that time). To make stacking and diversifying interesting might see a formula on weapon diversity such that you might get more powerful abilities if you stacked more weapons of a certain stat type but that the stats have a progressively ramped stat benefit such that the difference of 1 to 500 is not the same as 500 to 1000 and so having a high stat diversity may be seen as advantageous (while also granting a greater diversity of skills, almost like classic sub job systems), yet also having high stat stack unlocking deeper tier abilities on that stacked role would it's own advantages too.

Originally Posted by Shougun

The system can work, in other games, but I think a lot of people have already said why it wouldn't be that good for here unless we were seeing some maaajor changes to the game (in order to properly facilitate whole new skill system and tangibly interesting choices).

With that said, for fun, I'm sure we could imagine a job that might do this. Like taking the FFXV swords, axes, shields, etc, flying and floating about, you might be able to wield many spiritual weapons and changing your main weapon would shift some of your kit around. Noctis the job lol. Fun part of that is it could theoretically be any role you wanted to design it for, as it'd be a mostly physical. non-elemental, psychic based motif with loads of weapons to call art from.

Or maybe they might make it FFXIV's Onion Knight, as a limited job, literally get to slot in different weapons (that then 'literally' show up in your spell arts). Switching to different main weapon causes you to switch to different set of skills, while 'background' skills are based on the entirety of your selection (so some skills are determined by your loadout in general and some are determined by which weapon you're 'maining' at that time). To make stacking and diversifying interesting might see a formula on weapon diversity such that you might get more powerful abilities if you stacked more weapons of a certain stat type but that the stats have a progressively ramped stat benefit such that the difference of 1 to 500 is not the same as 500 to 1000 and so having a high stat diversity may be seen as advantageous (while also granting a greater diversity of skills, almost like classic sub job systems), yet also having high stat stack unlocking deeper tier abilities on that stacked role would it's own advantages too.

While I'm not opposed to this Noctis or Onion Knight concept, I imagine it would only work as a limited class, and only as one that "leeches" off of whatever classes you have already leveled, reusing abilities and weapons, instead of being its own distinct thing (outside of maybe a handful of flashy unique moves or weapons specific to the job).

I still think it would be overly complicated to deviate from the "one job, one weapon template" concept. I would concede to have a class change weapon at level 30 for a different job, but outside of a one-time swap I would never expect the developers to have to design more than one weapon type for any given job.

In the case of Reaper, I can find some justification: there is a lot of nostalgia for XI dark knight online and many requests for a scythe-wielding job. But that still isn't a "classic" job archetype, so either the discourse surrounding scythes was so proportionally massive that the devs couldn't ignore such a request. Which I don't see much evidence for because, while the discussions were there, they weren't overwhelming. Or, more likely, the other design options for "classic" melee jobs are just extremely weak. And that I can believe, because when we look at jobs like "Berserker" or "Viking" or "Mystic Knight" or "Rune Knight", we can already see most of those elements having been wrapped up in other jobs like Warrior or Red Mage. I don't see a "spellblade" type job being developed on its own, because most of its gimmicks like "enchanting a blade" or "negative status effects" have been taken over by Red Mage and Blue Mage; and without an elemental system, its primary en- gimmick would just amount to window-dressing. Sure it is possible, but the decision to go with reaper tells me the concept is weak.

The case of Sage is more striking to me, though. When you have so many discussions talking about wanting a Geomancer with a bell or hammer, or a Time Mage, or a Green Mage, or an Oracle, and the developers go with...floating laser guns...something which has *never* existed in any mainline FF game and really just feels pulled straight from a Monty Oum video. That tells me the developers are probably considering their nostalgia resources fairly tapped. Because they would rather shoehorn what feels like a *magical dps* weapon into a healing role than figure out how to implement any of several jobs that players have been actually saying they want.

Again, to reiterate. The new jobs are *fine*. They don't appeal much to my fantasy, but they are not bad (at least Reaper isn't bad, I need to see more of Sage to decide my opinion on it). But the fact that neither really hits clearly on our remaining classic job archetypes tells us something about where remaining design space is, I think.

GW2 weapon system is built completely different than ffxiv job system. In ffxiv everything is bundled with your job crystal/weapon with no room for customization, save for minor stat changes. In GW2 you instead have weapons, passives and skills that complement each other and can be shuffled around at will (with some restrictions due to elite specialisation and skill types).

Though would not have minded it if they gave us more linked classes such as arcanist with summoner/scholar. Have always wanted to play an "inquisitor" using conjuration to smite foes.