New Gear... for class only? [Glaring Issue] [Request]

[Ulric]

It really is retarded to have 2 jobs that essentially do the same thing. It's also dumb to have imo a job that leads into another job, just do like FFXI. Stop trying new stuff. If it isn't broken don't fix it.

This is not FFXI. This is FFXIV. I'm sorry to disappoint you with this information, but it's a reality you are just going to have to accept. You don't want SE to try new stuff? Then, what's going to draw people in? Pretty graphics aren't all that makes a game, and if the content in the game is all just copy & paste, why not play a cheaper/free game? If everyone lived by "Oh, that's new, I won't touch it." We'd still be in caves, with pointed sticks.

Also, if you'd stop looking at classes and jobs doing the same thing, I'm sure you'd find that they really don't. In the case of Lancer and Dragoon, Dragoon trades off it's survivability for extra damage and TP gain. Whereas staying on Lancer gives you better survivability through cures, stoneskin, etc.

To be honest, LNC/DRG are the only things I can say this with and know I'm right, so anything beyond this, I'd love for someone who knows to be able to correct me.

Marauder and Warrior. I'm not too sure that Warrior loses anything at the moment, but after 1.22b, it may be a trade-off between damage and tanking ability.

Archer and Bard. Well, Archer is straight DPS while Bard is more support. I'd assume that while doing your songs, you won't be attacking or using weaponskills, thus lowering your DPS in order to support your party.

Conjurer and White Mage. Conjurer is able to be a very good magic-using DD, while White Mage takes away abilities to augment that damage for better healing abilities.

Thaumaturge and Black Mage. See Lancer above.

Gladiator and Paladin. At the moment, is seems Paladin offers nothing to make it truly superior to Gladiator in any way, but after 1.22b it seems that it will also be a trade-off for DD capabilities or tanking.

To help with my point of a good use of classes and jobs, let's look at the Ifrit fight. There are multiple strategies for it, but I'll use the most generally accepted one. 1 WAR, 2 WHMS, 5 THMs/4THMs, 1 LNC. Why THM and LNC? They can take hits better, with the right abilities, so as to not cause a wipe while still dealing decent damage. I'd like to watch you do it with all jobs.

I have nothing for verification on this, so I also apologize if this is incorrect.
I believe it has been said by one of the devs that classes are here to stay. If you want jobs only, go back to FFXI. Complaining about things like this, while not adding anything that would be a reasonable fix, and would also not make the people working on this game go completely batty, is cluttering up our forums that are supposed to be used for the betterment of our communities, and the game.

[Felis]

P.S. Getting back on topic, I hope that new Gryphonskin Jerkin can be used by jobs... If it can't I'll be so sad

Don't hope too much

1.22
-NEW- High-level recipes
-NEW- Addition of class-exclusive high-level recipes
* Planned to be highly challenging synthesis.

Letter from the Producer, XXVI (03/26/2012)

I say I love my THM, and my BLM

[Orophin]

This makes the most sense. Maybe with a level cap increase the classes won't go beyond Lv.50. Like some people have said it's going to be more and more difficult to keep classes and jobs similar and different at the same time. It's like having two jobs do virtually the same thing. You wouldn't add the Black Belt job when the game already has MNK. Things get repetitive. I would rather have SE worrying about creating many varied and unique jobs, than trying think how it will work as a job and a class.

Maybe they should have just capped the abilities a class learns at level 30 and the job learns the rest of the abilities as it levels up. Of course this would create a lot of problems with the current balance of the game probably, especially at how difficult the AF quests are at level. But people do seem to want harder content!

Of course soloing at lv50 is a much easier task for your job, however doing it from 30-50 is far from a breeze when compared to your class. You can die a lot easier when your on a job instead of your class.

The point is, this gear is like level 49. It really doesn't help with the leveling process. All it is is overglorified soloing gear, which as other people have stated above, jobs can solo better than most classes. I can almost guarantee even with a full set of double melded gear, a class would not be more useful than a job on Garuda.

[Lux_Rayna]

Maybe they should have just capped the abilities a class learns at level 30 and the job learns the rest of the abilities as it levels up. Of course this would create a lot of problems with the current balance of the game probably, especially at how difficult the AF quests are at level. But people do seem to want harder content!


The point is, this gear is like level 49. It really doesn't help with the leveling process. All it is is overglorified soloing gear, which as other people have stated above, jobs can solo better than most classes. I can almost guarantee even with a full set of double melded gear, a class would not be more useful than a job on Garuda.

Classes are not only good for solo, if you think this you should probably revisit the game. There are a number of reasons why anyone would choose a class over a job in a party, precisely because jobs are often over-specialized. Class only gear makes perfect sense, and since you're not quite understanding the system you should dedicate a bit more time to your classes. Course you never have to use a class just like you never have to use a job. Its up to you, options are great aren't they? Ive said it a billion times in this thread, but an arc will pwn a bard's single target dps in a party. Thats just one example. After the patch, an MRD will probably pwn a Warrior's aoe damage in a party...a GLA's dmg pwns Paladin for the same tanking efficiency as of now, Pgl can off-tank far better than monk, and LNC has much higher survivability than DRG for less damage capabilities. Classes were made with the ability to do more than one thing. Ppl just used them like jobs from FFXI because ppl can't let FFXI stay in the past. Now that actual jobs came out, no one sees the difference when its been there all along.

[Affliction]

Dosnt anybody read the patch notes? back when they were talking about jobs coming out and when they did come out, they said they were also going to release class specific gear and weps.... We knew this... stop complaining lol

[Orophin]

Classes are not only good for solo, if you think this you should probably revisit the game. There are a number of reasons why anyone would choose a class over a job in a party, precisely because jobs are often over-specialized. Class only gear makes perfect sense, and since you're not quite understanding the system you should dedicate a bit more time to your classes. Course you never have to use a class just like you never have to use a job. Its up to you, options are great aren't they? Ive said it a billion times in this thread, but an arc will pwn a bard's single target dps in a party. Thats just one example. After the patch, an MRD will probably pwn a Warrior's aoe damage in a party...a GLA's dmg pwns Paladin for the same tanking efficiency as of now, Pgl can off-tank far better than monk, and LNC has much higher survivability than DRG for less damage capabilities. Classes were made with the ability to do more than one thing. Ppl just used them like jobs from FFXI because ppl can't let FFXI stay in the past. Now that actual jobs came out, no one sees the difference when its been there all along.

Can you tell me in any of these situations where classes are better for Garuda, or any full party content for that matter?

People are going to bring a bard over an archer for party utility unless more than 2 archers are needed.
MRD isn't going to be brought as a pure DPS; WAR's abilities will still earn it a spot as main tank/off tank.
Paladin is getting super buffed and won't be out-tanked by Gladiator.
Pugilist or MNK off-tanking anything? Right.

Pick examples based on relevant content and don't just throw things out there.

[Lux_Rayna]

Can you tell me in any of these situations where classes are better for Garuda, or any full party content for that matter?

People are going to bring a bard over an archer for party utility unless more than 2 archers are needed.
MRD isn't going to be brought as a pure DPS; WAR's abilities will still earn it a spot as main tank/off tank.
Paladin is getting super buffed and won't be out-tanked by Gladiator.
Pugilist or MNK off-tanking anything? Right.

Pick examples based on relevant content and don't just throw things out there.

Ppl will choose whatever they perceive to be the "best," regardless of the other viable choices out there. You choose a class based on what you have access to, and what roles/setups work best for the players participating. I might roll 2 whms, I might roll 1 whm for heals, and 1 cnj for constant protect/stoneskin/shell refreshes as well as dps/backup heal. I might run a war main tank and a pgl off-tank instead of a war...since wars generate way too much enmity while they dps. I might take an arc and one bard, to maximize the arc's single target dps and retain party support from the bard. I might take a gla as a tank over a war due its ability to prism cure, and reduce damage through defense and blocks. This would take pressure off of the whm and create a lot of enmity. I might take lnc over dragoon if I need dps thats less squishy and can take care of itself. It really just depends on what my party setup is. Class-only gear *makes* all of these classes viable for endgame content, which is precisely why it exists.

I might take a thm over a blm because its dmg is comparable, and I have an extra rez/backup heals if I need them. The possibilities are endless, ppl really need to expand their horizons and think outside of tiny boxes at a time.

[Eliseus]

This is not FFXI. This is FFXIV. I'm sorry to disappoint you with this information, but it's a reality you are just going to have to accept. You don't want SE to try new stuff? Then, what's going to draw people in? Pretty graphics aren't all that makes a game, and if the content in the game is all just copy & paste, why not play a cheaper/free game? If everyone lived by "Oh, that's new, I won't touch it." We'd still be in caves, with pointed sticks.

Also, if you'd stop looking at classes and jobs doing the same thing, I'm sure you'd find that they really don't. In the case of Lancer and Dragoon, Dragoon trades off it's survivability for extra damage and TP gain. Whereas staying on Lancer gives you better survivability through cures, stoneskin, etc.

To be honest, LNC/DRG are the only things I can say this with and know I'm right, so anything beyond this, I'd love for someone who knows to be able to correct me.

Marauder and Warrior. I'm not too sure that Warrior loses anything at the moment, but after 1.22b, it may be a trade-off between damage and tanking ability.

Archer and Bard. Well, Archer is straight DPS while Bard is more support. I'd assume that while doing your songs, you won't be attacking or using weaponskills, thus lowering your DPS in order to support your party.

Conjurer and White Mage. Conjurer is able to be a very good magic-using DD, while White Mage takes away abilities to augment that damage for better healing abilities.

Thaumaturge and Black Mage. See Lancer above.

Gladiator and Paladin. At the moment, is seems Paladin offers nothing to make it truly superior to Gladiator in any way, but after 1.22b it seems that it will also be a trade-off for DD capabilities or tanking.

To help with my point of a good use of classes and jobs, let's look at the Ifrit fight. There are multiple strategies for it, but I'll use the most generally accepted one. 1 WAR, 2 WHMS, 5 THMs/4THMs, 1 LNC. Why THM and LNC? They can take hits better, with the right abilities, so as to not cause a wipe while still dealing decent damage. I'd like to watch you do it with all jobs.

I have nothing for verification on this, so I also apologize if this is incorrect.
I believe it has been said by one of the devs that classes are here to stay. If you want jobs only, go back to FFXI. Complaining about things like this, while not adding anything that would be a reasonable fix, and would also not make the people working on this game go completely batty, is cluttering up our forums that are supposed to be used for the betterment of our communities, and the game.

Really? This is FFXIV? Here I thought I was playing something else. You realize the part of these forums is to give feedback right?

[Krausus]

I've never soloed better on my class than my job. Here, I'll even break it down, and I'd like you to tell me how the job is worse than the class.

GLA versus PLD -- PLD sacrifices some HP, for higher VIT, more DMG skills, more heals, more mp. Winner, Job.

LNC versus DRG -- DRG has much more dmg, can self cure with dead spike. I can solo 7 rank 50-52 mobs on my DRG. I can't even come close on my LNC. Winner, DRG.

ARC versus BRD -- ARC and BRD DMG is similar. The songs however favor the BRD. You can raise on BRD and heal on BRD. Winner, BRD.

CNJ versus WHM -- Regen on WHM. Enough said. Winner, job.

THM versus BLM is pretty close. THM is very useful at times, but loses out on overall dmg to BLM slightly. We've tried it a lot. Same stats etc. I'd say this is even.

PGL versus MNK -- You can self heal on PGL, but your MNK is a MONSTER on dps. If you aren't evading and stunning enough its not that PGL is better or useful as a solo class, you just aren't playing MNK properly. Pacification, kicks, more dmg overall on MNK. Winner, JOB.

Seriously, I don't see any argument for saying Classes can Solo better than Jobs. Not trying to be a dick or start an argument, but I'd like to know when a class >> job. Please don't say lolraises. If you are having to raise in parties, your healers or your tank is messing up. Simple.

^^^This

If you are having a hard time soloing on a job then you are doing it wrong. The only things I can see for swapping is maybe BLM and that's only for more survivability. ARC though can do a ton more damage than BRD just by having access to LNC abilities so for that one it just depends on the role you want to play so I can certainly see the new bow and leather armor being worthwhile.

[Dzian]

I might take an arc and one bard, to maximize the arc's single target dps and retain party support from the bard..

why would you do that when a second bard buff will have a greater impact on the whole party's performance than 1 arcs invigorate or keen flurry.

ARC though can do a ton more damage than BRD just by having access to LNC abilities

a single brd will out damage a single archer through his dps alone, as i said earlier paon of war lets you spam the hell out of your 10 sec skills while waiting on combo timers. 1 blood for blood in 60 seconds cant match 3 or 4 extra gloom arrows or heavy shots from paons tp boost in the same time span. and rain of death is also awesome damage which you can spam quite easily as its quite easy to sit on 3000 tp even spamming the hell out of every skill you have
and if the bards in a party at the same time as being able to do more damage than an arc he will boost the dps of the entire party with his songs.

if for example you were to say a brd song increases a dds dps by 5% and you have 5 dds in the party then a brd brings 125% of an archers dps to the party. if a second brd brings another song and that also a 5% boost on a dds dps. then those 2 brds are bringing 50% more dps to the party than 2 arcs. or 25% more dps than 1 brd and 1 arc.