New Gear... for class only? [Glaring Issue] [Request]

[Felis]

P.S. Getting back on topic, I hope that new Gryphonskin Jerkin can be used by jobs... If it can't I'll be so sad

Don't hope too much

1.22
-NEW- High-level recipes
-NEW- Addition of class-exclusive high-level recipes
* Planned to be highly challenging synthesis.

Letter from the Producer, XXVI (03/26/2012)

I say I love my THM, and my BLM

[Orophin]

This makes the most sense. Maybe with a level cap increase the classes won't go beyond Lv.50. Like some people have said it's going to be more and more difficult to keep classes and jobs similar and different at the same time. It's like having two jobs do virtually the same thing. You wouldn't add the Black Belt job when the game already has MNK. Things get repetitive. I would rather have SE worrying about creating many varied and unique jobs, than trying think how it will work as a job and a class.

Maybe they should have just capped the abilities a class learns at level 30 and the job learns the rest of the abilities as it levels up. Of course this would create a lot of problems with the current balance of the game probably, especially at how difficult the AF quests are at level. But people do seem to want harder content!

Of course soloing at lv50 is a much easier task for your job, however doing it from 30-50 is far from a breeze when compared to your class. You can die a lot easier when your on a job instead of your class.

The point is, this gear is like level 49. It really doesn't help with the leveling process. All it is is overglorified soloing gear, which as other people have stated above, jobs can solo better than most classes. I can almost guarantee even with a full set of double melded gear, a class would not be more useful than a job on Garuda.

[Lux_Rayna]

Maybe they should have just capped the abilities a class learns at level 30 and the job learns the rest of the abilities as it levels up. Of course this would create a lot of problems with the current balance of the game probably, especially at how difficult the AF quests are at level. But people do seem to want harder content!


The point is, this gear is like level 49. It really doesn't help with the leveling process. All it is is overglorified soloing gear, which as other people have stated above, jobs can solo better than most classes. I can almost guarantee even with a full set of double melded gear, a class would not be more useful than a job on Garuda.

Classes are not only good for solo, if you think this you should probably revisit the game. There are a number of reasons why anyone would choose a class over a job in a party, precisely because jobs are often over-specialized. Class only gear makes perfect sense, and since you're not quite understanding the system you should dedicate a bit more time to your classes. Course you never have to use a class just like you never have to use a job. Its up to you, options are great aren't they? Ive said it a billion times in this thread, but an arc will pwn a bard's single target dps in a party. Thats just one example. After the patch, an MRD will probably pwn a Warrior's aoe damage in a party...a GLA's dmg pwns Paladin for the same tanking efficiency as of now, Pgl can off-tank far better than monk, and LNC has much higher survivability than DRG for less damage capabilities. Classes were made with the ability to do more than one thing. Ppl just used them like jobs from FFXI because ppl can't let FFXI stay in the past. Now that actual jobs came out, no one sees the difference when its been there all along.

[Orophin]

Classes are not only good for solo, if you think this you should probably revisit the game. There are a number of reasons why anyone would choose a class over a job in a party, precisely because jobs are often over-specialized. Class only gear makes perfect sense, and since you're not quite understanding the system you should dedicate a bit more time to your classes. Course you never have to use a class just like you never have to use a job. Its up to you, options are great aren't they? Ive said it a billion times in this thread, but an arc will pwn a bard's single target dps in a party. Thats just one example. After the patch, an MRD will probably pwn a Warrior's aoe damage in a party...a GLA's dmg pwns Paladin for the same tanking efficiency as of now, Pgl can off-tank far better than monk, and LNC has much higher survivability than DRG for less damage capabilities. Classes were made with the ability to do more than one thing. Ppl just used them like jobs from FFXI because ppl can't let FFXI stay in the past. Now that actual jobs came out, no one sees the difference when its been there all along.

Can you tell me in any of these situations where classes are better for Garuda, or any full party content for that matter?

People are going to bring a bard over an archer for party utility unless more than 2 archers are needed.
MRD isn't going to be brought as a pure DPS; WAR's abilities will still earn it a spot as main tank/off tank.
Paladin is getting super buffed and won't be out-tanked by Gladiator.
Pugilist or MNK off-tanking anything? Right.

Pick examples based on relevant content and don't just throw things out there.

[Lux_Rayna]

Can you tell me in any of these situations where classes are better for Garuda, or any full party content for that matter?

People are going to bring a bard over an archer for party utility unless more than 2 archers are needed.
MRD isn't going to be brought as a pure DPS; WAR's abilities will still earn it a spot as main tank/off tank.
Paladin is getting super buffed and won't be out-tanked by Gladiator.
Pugilist or MNK off-tanking anything? Right.

Pick examples based on relevant content and don't just throw things out there.

Ppl will choose whatever they perceive to be the "best," regardless of the other viable choices out there. You choose a class based on what you have access to, and what roles/setups work best for the players participating. I might roll 2 whms, I might roll 1 whm for heals, and 1 cnj for constant protect/stoneskin/shell refreshes as well as dps/backup heal. I might run a war main tank and a pgl off-tank instead of a war...since wars generate way too much enmity while they dps. I might take an arc and one bard, to maximize the arc's single target dps and retain party support from the bard. I might take a gla as a tank over a war due its ability to prism cure, and reduce damage through defense and blocks. This would take pressure off of the whm and create a lot of enmity. I might take lnc over dragoon if I need dps thats less squishy and can take care of itself. It really just depends on what my party setup is. Class-only gear *makes* all of these classes viable for endgame content, which is precisely why it exists.

I might take a thm over a blm because its dmg is comparable, and I have an extra rez/backup heals if I need them. The possibilities are endless, ppl really need to expand their horizons and think outside of tiny boxes at a time.

[Dzian]

I might take an arc and one bard, to maximize the arc's single target dps and retain party support from the bard..

why would you do that when a second bard buff will have a greater impact on the whole party's performance than 1 arcs invigorate or keen flurry.

ARC though can do a ton more damage than BRD just by having access to LNC abilities

a single brd will out damage a single archer through his dps alone, as i said earlier paon of war lets you spam the hell out of your 10 sec skills while waiting on combo timers. 1 blood for blood in 60 seconds cant match 3 or 4 extra gloom arrows or heavy shots from paons tp boost in the same time span. and rain of death is also awesome damage which you can spam quite easily as its quite easy to sit on 3000 tp even spamming the hell out of every skill you have
and if the bards in a party at the same time as being able to do more damage than an arc he will boost the dps of the entire party with his songs.

if for example you were to say a brd song increases a dds dps by 5% and you have 5 dds in the party then a brd brings 125% of an archers dps to the party. if a second brd brings another song and that also a 5% boost on a dds dps. then those 2 brds are bringing 50% more dps to the party than 2 arcs. or 25% more dps than 1 brd and 1 arc.

[Rykan]

This is not FFXI. This is FFXIV. I'm sorry to disappoint you with this information, but it's a reality you are just going to have to accept. You don't want SE to try new stuff? Then, what's going to draw people in? Pretty graphics aren't all that makes a game, and if the content in the game is all just copy & paste, why not play a cheaper/free game? If everyone lived by "Oh, that's new, I won't touch it." We'd still be in caves, with pointed sticks.

Also, if you'd stop looking at classes and jobs doing the same thing, I'm sure you'd find that they really don't. In the case of Lancer and Dragoon, Dragoon trades off it's survivability for extra damage and TP gain. Whereas staying on Lancer gives you better survivability through cures, stoneskin, etc.

To be honest, LNC/DRG are the only things I can say this with and know I'm right, so anything beyond this, I'd love for someone who knows to be able to correct me.

Marauder and Warrior. I'm not too sure that Warrior loses anything at the moment, but after 1.22b, it may be a trade-off between damage and tanking ability.

Archer and Bard. Well, Archer is straight DPS while Bard is more support. I'd assume that while doing your songs, you won't be attacking or using weaponskills, thus lowering your DPS in order to support your party.

Conjurer and White Mage. Conjurer is able to be a very good magic-using DD, while White Mage takes away abilities to augment that damage for better healing abilities.

Thaumaturge and Black Mage. See Lancer above....

I have nothing for verification on this, so I also apologize if this is incorrect.
I believe it has been said by one of the devs that classes are here to stay. If you want jobs only, go back to FFXI. Complaining about things like this, while not adding anything that would be a reasonable fix, and would also not make the people working on this game go completely batty, is cluttering up our forums that are supposed to be used for the betterment of our communities, and the game.

I realize this is my first post, but for everyone's information, my brother and friend both have accounts. I've been watching and playing this game since the launch; so, don't dismiss my input.

Anyway, I love how you added that last sentence about "See lancer above" for CNJ and THM...You know why that's so funny? I'll tell you why:

It's hilarious because it just shows everyone how UNINVENTIVE this stupid class--->job system is, and how imperative it is to REPLACE it. Pretty much EVERY class trades off survivability for "better dmg/tp/spam, etc." Archers, Marauders, Gladiators, Lancers, Thaumaturges, and so on were ALL curing themselves to hell, spamming themselves in stoneskin, protecting themselves, Bloodbath-ing, Second Wind-ing, etc. So, what other choice did SE have with jobs, other than trading off survivability for what the da$% job's actual role is lol...

Jobs, as they are now, are just SE's DESPERATE attempt at salvaging this really big fail of a system. They didn't have the heart to phase classes out completely, so instead they created "Jobs" that work the way classes should have worked in the first place. The only Archers, Marauders, and Lancers that should have been curing/stoneskin-ing/protecting themselves are the ones that are "dumb enough" to "sub whm."

The Armoury System is garbage. SE made a very NOBLE effort at innovation, and kudos for trying so hard, but it just is...not......working.........................

Any chance we had for being unique is thrown completely out the window. Every Dragoon is just a carbon copy of any other Dragoon, as is every other choice. At least with XI, although /nin ruined it, there was an OPPORTUNITY to be different than the next guy. If they DID embrace a system SIMILAR to FFXI (NOT a carbon copy) , then this game might have a chance. I'm telling you right now, though, if you can't get the hell over your anti-XI, hater mentality, then these issues will never be resolved.

[Krausus]

why would you do that when a second bard buff will have a greater impact on the whole party's performance than 1 arcs invigorate or keen flurry.

a single brd will out damage a single archer through his dps alone, as i said earlier paon of war lets you spam the hell out of your 10 sec skills while waiting on combo timers. 1 blood for blood in 60 seconds cant match 3 or 4 extra gloom arrows or heavy shots from paons tp boost in the same time span. and rain of death is also awesome damage which you can spam quite easily as its quite easy to sit on 3000 tp even spamming the hell out of every skill you have
and if the bards in a party at the same time as being able to do more damage than an arc he will boost the dps of the entire party with his songs.

if for example you were to say a brd song increases a dds dps by 5% and you have 5 dds in the party then a brd brings 125% of an archers dps to the party. if a second brd brings another song and that also a 5% boost on a dds dps. then those 2 brds are bringing 50% more dps to the party than 2 arcs. or 25% more dps than 1 brd and 1 arc.

Im talking BRD vs ARC only not how much of a DPS boost a BRD will bring to a party since you know this is about solo play. I know a few BRD that would very much disagree with you.