New Gear... for class only? [Glaring Issue] [Request]

[whoopeeragon]

I'm just going to quote myself here as well:

From a logical and practical point of view, I believe that it can make sense in a way that there are 'class'-unique gear. For example, take a Lancer.

A DRG focuses on pure DPS, subjecting their gear and weapons to achieve that particular purpose. That involves having gear attuned towards damage, accuracy, and items that are least able to attract attention. Hence, the job-unique gear. That's the practical side. In a logical manner, that means that the DRG itself has no affiliation with all the other processes of maintaining HP, supporting others, giving a rest to other members of the party. There is zero compatibility with magic as a DRG.

A LNC, however, is subject to a much larger variety of ideals. At crucial times, they can step back to take a backline support role, giving an occasional hand to a supporter who may be struggling. Mayhap even take up a frontal position and gain the enemy's attention while the usual tanker recovers enough to take over the role. Thus, the gear must be subject to a lot more variants and manners which a DRG otherwise cannot use. One major difference is that a LNC CAN BE ATTUNED TOWARDS MAGIC.

The 'ki' running through each of them is different - having the wrong item in hand to channel such a 'ki' will not work as well as a specialised one for each. Take a real-life example; cutting meat in the kitchen. For normal pieces of meat, a medium sized knife will work. However, as you reach more intricate meats, such as eye fillet, or more bulky ones, such a leg, the blade must be different. The medium-sized knife may work on both, but not effective as a smaller, precise knife for the eye fillet, or a meat cleaver for the leg. However, can you use a smaller, precise knife on the leg, and cut it through, or a meat cleaver on the eye fillet, and produce decent dices of meat without destroying the muscle structure?

A DRG cannot use all the LNC can use in terms of abilities and the structure and ideals in combat. The other way around also happens. Why, then, must the DRG must be able to use all the LNC can wear in terms of traits and bonuses given, when a LNC cannot take up the specialised abilities as a DRG? The DRG is not an advanced step as a LNC - it is a specialization of the role a LNC was designed around. There is no reason why they must give the advantage towards the DRG when they are, in the end, two separate entities, and entitled to their unique purposes and outfittings.

And the fact that as a LNC, PGL, MRD or THM you have access to stoneskin...why would you even think about not having that when you go solo? It's basically like an extension to your HP bar - you get zero damage for a specified amount. Why waste having to build up to self-heal or cure when you can just bypass that easily? That's already one huge plus to have classes instead of jobs as solo.

Classes are also meant to be more MALLEABLE. Yes, you can solo seven lvl 50-52 mobs easily as a DRG rather than as a LNC, but it isn't impossible. If I can do that in Zahar'ak on my LNC, I believe that counts. But once you use up dread spike....once you use up Second Wind....and more mobs come along and agro....what then? You're a sitting duck until your timers flash back again, by which time the higher survivability of the LNC will prove it's boon towards then just being a DRG.

I'll only deal with the four classes/jobs I major in. I already expressed my LNC/DRG above.

ARC and BRD damage the same? Dear me, Invigorate and Blood for Blood increase the ARC's damage tremendously over the BRD. Since you love to use self-heal as an example to counter against classes, I'll use this as a case where ARC's can self-heal better than BRD with second wind and bloodbath. ARC's can have a higher chance of evading attacks on Featherfoot. Survivability of an ARC versus a BRD in solo situations? Winner goes to ARC.

A CNJ's damage output is much better than a WHM's. In solo situations, while your stone and aero combos are on cooldown, rock out with a Thunder. Need to attack, but want HP as well? Necrogenesis your Aerora. About to be hit by a large attack and want more MP to nuke/heal more? Rock out with a Sanguine Rite. In small parties, you want to damage more, but don't want enmity? Quelling Strike and Chameleon afterwards. Winner in terms of damage and adaptability? CNJ.

And THM and BLM....I don't even need to go into this. Just look at Ifrit parties - why are THM's always requested over BLMs? The sacred prism effect for both stoneskin and sanguine rite, the ability to help with curing and raising the dead....you can't just take damage into account. For solo-ing, BLM's will definitely go down faster against high-damaging opponents.

The only way that you will always have a Job outperform a Class is if you play your class as if you will play your job. They're two different ENTITIES - jobs are a SPECIALISATION of a possible role that the class was shaped around. As a job, you PLAY that role. As a class, you play a MIX of roles. Why limit yourself to just one role when you can adapt to so many others as a class?

[KiraAmane]

I'm just going to quote myself here as well:

And the fact that as a LNC, PGL, MRD or THM you have access to stoneskin...why would you even think about not having that when you go solo? It's basically like an extension to your HP bar - you get zero damage for a specified amount. Why waste having to build up to self-heal or cure when you can just bypass that easily? That's already one huge plus to have classes instead of jobs as solo.

Classes are also meant to be more MALLEABLE. Yes, you can solo seven lvl 50-52 mobs easily as a DRG rather than as a LNC, but it isn't impossible. If I can do that in Zahar'ak on my LNC, I believe that counts. But once you use up dread spike....once you use up Second Wind....and more mobs come along and agro....what then? You're a sitting duck until your timers flash back again, by which time the higher survivability of the LNC will prove it's boon towards then just being a DRG.

I'll only deal with the four classes/jobs I major in. I already expressed my LNC/DRG above.

ARC and BRD damage the same? Dear me, Invigorate and Blood for Blood increase the ARC's damage tremendously over the BRD. Since you love to use self-heal as an example to counter against classes, I'll use this as a case where ARC's can self-heal better than BRD with second wind and bloodbath. ARC's can have a higher chance of evading attacks on Featherfoot. Survivability of an ARC versus a BRD in solo situations? Winner goes to ARC.

A CNJ's damage output is much better than a WHM's. In solo situations, while your stone and aero combos are on cooldown, rock out with a Thunder. Need to attack, but want HP as well? Necrogenesis your Aerora. About to be hit by a large attack and want more MP to nuke/heal more? Rock out with a Sanguine Rite. In small parties, you want to damage more, but don't want enmity? Quelling Strike and Chameleon afterwards. Winner in terms of damage and adaptability? CNJ.

And THM and BLM....I don't even need to go into this. Just look at Ifrit parties - why are THM's always requested over BLMs? The sacred prism effect for both stoneskin and sanguine rite, the ability to help with curing and raising the dead....you can't just take damage into account. For solo-ing, BLM's will definitely go down faster against high-damaging opponents.

The only way that you will always have a Job outperform a Class is if you play your class as if you will play your job. They're two different ENTITIES - jobs are a SPECIALISATION of a possible role that the class was shaped around. As a job, you PLAY that role. As a class, you play a MIX of roles. Why limit yourself to just one role when you can adapt to so many others as a class?

Wait, a LNC aiding people and tanking? I just loled. LNC/DRG is strictly a DD. If you are curing or doing anything else, your party frankly sucks? Attune a LNC to magic? I literally lol'ed. I have nothing to say about these absurd things. Stoneskin on a solo person is ok, but when I don't need it and can burn the mob down faster what is the point of it? If you really need to heal yourself as a solo player on DRG, use livesurge instead of powersurge... I find everything you said about LNC to be moot. And if I'm not main tanking, I run through as DRG and wreak havoc on a consistent basis.

ARC vs BRD, invigorate versus minuet or paeon? The songs out balance anything invigorate can do for you. And one blood for blood versus a Rain of Death? I don't even need to compare the two. I was using self heal as an example of durability of BRD because you were mentioning it's easier to survive on your classes. I was simply making a counter argument, not saying that self heal on BRD was why it was better. The songs make it stronger, even in solo. I mean minuet gives you accuracy. That is HUGE for a solo player.

CNJ versus WHM. Regen. Again. I refuse to say anything else. I guess I could mention Presence of Mind too. Also who the hell wants a CNJ damaging anything lol. You are a healer on CNJ and WHM. Nothing else.

I don't need you to get into THM and BLM because I already agreed they can be switched in and out.

[Dzian]

I'll only deal with the four classes/jobs I major in. I already expressed my LNC/DRG above.

ARC and BRD damage the same? Dear me, Invigorate and Blood for Blood increase the ARC's damage tremendously over the BRD. Since you love to use self-heal as an example to counter against classes, I'll use this as a case where ARC's can self-heal better than BRD with second wind and bloodbath. ARC's can have a higher chance of evading attacks on Featherfoot. Survivability of an ARC versus a BRD in solo situations? Winner goes to ARC.

Paeon of war gives you far more tp than Invigorate which in turn lets you spam far more weapon skills which in turn lets you do a ton more damage than an arc can possibly do.
Even with blood for blood you still cant beat paeon of war for its increase in damage. sure maybe you get your bns from seeing an uber weapon skill every 60 seconds. but in that 60 seconds the tp from paeon can see you put out 3-4 weapon skills if you 2 step combo them no way 1 blood for blood for blood can compete with that and i havent even mentioned rain of death yet.

survivability is moot. if your soloing on arc/brd then your forever mobile to keep at combo range reducing your damage and with heavy and shadow bind you get more than enough time to cure and stoneskin yourself when you need to.

and then theres the old addage of it can't hurt you if its dead. the extra damage a brd can put out increases a bards survivability in itself

Paeon of War can't be used immediately at the start of the battle. Yes, it may last longer, but the initial burst of TP from invigorate helps out faster, instead of standing there peppering arrows at the enemies, using paeon of war, peppering enemies again...You mentioned burning down enemies faster as a DRG rather than a LNC. Well, wouldn't an ARC burn down enemies faster than a BRD? And accuracy? Hawk's eye? Are we forgetting the normal abilities that ARC had already, and using BRD ones to justify? .

True but you can get a paeon of war off within 5 seconds of a fight using 1 lightshot and quelling strike on your barrage. given the time it takes for invigorate to get you tp, 5 seconds to paeon of war is nothing.

as for accuracy. when does a arc/brd ever miss really? they have insanely high accuracy and are pretty much known to never miss.
vs moogles my accuracy is typically around 99% and though my garuda experience is limited my accuracy was averaging 97% yesterday. the only accuracy buffs i have are from flame sergants sash and af hat.

[Vanguard319]

I'm just going to quote myself here as well:



And the fact that as a LNC, PGL, MRD or THM you have access to stoneskin...why would you even think about not having that when you go solo? It's basically like an extension to your HP bar - you get zero damage for a specified amount. Why waste having to build up to self-heal or cure when you can just bypass that easily? That's already one huge plus to have classes instead of jobs as solo.

Classes are also meant to be more MALLEABLE. Yes, you can solo seven lvl 50-52 mobs easily as a DRG rather than as a LNC, but it isn't impossible. If I can do that in Zahar'ak on my LNC, I believe that counts. But once you use up dread spike....once you use up Second Wind....and more mobs come along and agro....what then? You're a sitting duck until your timers flash back again, by which time the higher survivability of the LNC will prove it's boon towards then just being a DRG.

I'll only deal with the four classes/jobs I major in. I already expressed my LNC/DRG above.

ARC and BRD damage the same? Dear me, Invigorate and Blood for Blood increase the ARC's damage tremendously over the BRD. Since you love to use self-heal as an example to counter against classes, I'll use this as a case where ARC's can self-heal better than BRD with second wind and bloodbath. ARC's can have a higher chance of evading attacks on Featherfoot. Survivability of an ARC versus a BRD in solo situations? Winner goes to ARC.

A CNJ's damage output is much better than a WHM's. In solo situations, while your stone and aero combos are on cooldown, rock out with a Thunder. Need to attack, but want HP as well? Necrogenesis your Aerora. About to be hit by a large attack and want more MP to nuke/heal more? Rock out with a Sanguine Rite. In small parties, you want to damage more, but don't want enmity? Quelling Strike and Chameleon afterwards. Winner in terms of damage and adaptability? CNJ.

And THM and BLM....I don't even need to go into this. Just look at Ifrit parties - why are THM's always requested over BLMs? The sacred prism effect for both stoneskin and sanguine rite, the ability to help with curing and raising the dead....you can't just take damage into account. For solo-ing, BLM's will definitely go down faster against high-damaging opponents.

The only way that you will always have a Job outperform a Class is if you play your class as if you will play your job. They're two different ENTITIES - jobs are a SPECIALISATION of a possible role that the class was shaped around. As a job, you PLAY that role. As a class, you play a MIX of roles. Why limit yourself to just one role when you can adapt to so many others as a class?

This, I've been playing around with the mailbreaker and some of the new gc gear, and found that one can turn a gld into a fairly decent dd. Due to the way grind parties typically fight multiple mobs at once, most people tend to prefer war over pld, so when the level cap is raised, a gld may have to resort to such a setup in order to gain levels. This would be a good example of why you would use a class in parties.