New Gear... for class only? [Glaring Issue] [Request]

[UmJammerSully]

I don't Job solo anymore.
I realised I'm much more balanced outside of it.

What are you soloing at level 50 exactly? o_o

[KiraAmane]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...oductive/page8

`Thanks for this post, couldn't find a response

[KiraAmane]

Not this thread again... I'm just going to copy/paste one of my responses.

Classes =/= solo only

Classes can be used successfully in a party just as a job.

I've never soloed better on my class than my job. Here, I'll even break it down, and I'd like you to tell me how the job is worse than the class.

GLA versus PLD -- PLD sacrifices some HP, for higher VIT, more DMG skills, more heals, more mp. Winner, Job.

LNC versus DRG -- DRG has much more dmg, can self cure with dead spike. I can solo 7 rank 50-52 mobs on my DRG. I can't even come close on my LNC. Winner, DRG.

ARC versus BRD -- ARC and BRD DMG is similar. The songs however favor the BRD. You can raise on BRD and heal on BRD. Winner, BRD.

CNJ versus WHM -- Regen on WHM. Enough said. Winner, job.

THM versus BLM is pretty close. THM is very useful at times, but loses out on overall dmg to BLM slightly. We've tried it a lot. Same stats etc. I'd say this is even.

PGL versus MNK -- You can self heal on PGL, but your MNK is a MONSTER on dps. If you aren't evading and stunning enough its not that PGL is better or useful as a solo class, you just aren't playing MNK properly. Pacification, kicks, more dmg overall on MNK. Winner, JOB.

Seriously, I don't see any argument for saying Classes can Solo better than Jobs. Not trying to be a dick or start an argument, but I'd like to know when a class >> job. Please don't say lolraises. If you are having to raise in parties, your healers or your tank is messing up. Simple.

[Endemerrin]

I've never soloed better on my class than my job.

This.

I've tinkered as well, and I always perform better - even while solo - on my jobs. Trying to pull a "Oh, well you just don't know how to play your class right" is also a complete load as if you know how to play it's corresponding Job, there's only a handful of differences between the two.

[whoopeeragon]

I'm just going to quote myself here as well:

From a logical and practical point of view, I believe that it can make sense in a way that there are 'class'-unique gear. For example, take a Lancer.

A DRG focuses on pure DPS, subjecting their gear and weapons to achieve that particular purpose. That involves having gear attuned towards damage, accuracy, and items that are least able to attract attention. Hence, the job-unique gear. That's the practical side. In a logical manner, that means that the DRG itself has no affiliation with all the other processes of maintaining HP, supporting others, giving a rest to other members of the party. There is zero compatibility with magic as a DRG.

A LNC, however, is subject to a much larger variety of ideals. At crucial times, they can step back to take a backline support role, giving an occasional hand to a supporter who may be struggling. Mayhap even take up a frontal position and gain the enemy's attention while the usual tanker recovers enough to take over the role. Thus, the gear must be subject to a lot more variants and manners which a DRG otherwise cannot use. One major difference is that a LNC CAN BE ATTUNED TOWARDS MAGIC.

The 'ki' running through each of them is different - having the wrong item in hand to channel such a 'ki' will not work as well as a specialised one for each. Take a real-life example; cutting meat in the kitchen. For normal pieces of meat, a medium sized knife will work. However, as you reach more intricate meats, such as eye fillet, or more bulky ones, such a leg, the blade must be different. The medium-sized knife may work on both, but not effective as a smaller, precise knife for the eye fillet, or a meat cleaver for the leg. However, can you use a smaller, precise knife on the leg, and cut it through, or a meat cleaver on the eye fillet, and produce decent dices of meat without destroying the muscle structure?

A DRG cannot use all the LNC can use in terms of abilities and the structure and ideals in combat. The other way around also happens. Why, then, must the DRG must be able to use all the LNC can wear in terms of traits and bonuses given, when a LNC cannot take up the specialised abilities as a DRG? The DRG is not an advanced step as a LNC - it is a specialization of the role a LNC was designed around. There is no reason why they must give the advantage towards the DRG when they are, in the end, two separate entities, and entitled to their unique purposes and outfittings.

And the fact that as a LNC, PGL, MRD or THM you have access to stoneskin...why would you even think about not having that when you go solo? It's basically like an extension to your HP bar - you get zero damage for a specified amount. Why waste having to build up to self-heal or cure when you can just bypass that easily? That's already one huge plus to have classes instead of jobs as solo.

Classes are also meant to be more MALLEABLE. Yes, you can solo seven lvl 50-52 mobs easily as a DRG rather than as a LNC, but it isn't impossible. If I can do that in Zahar'ak on my LNC, I believe that counts. But once you use up dread spike....once you use up Second Wind....and more mobs come along and agro....what then? You're a sitting duck until your timers flash back again, by which time the higher survivability of the LNC will prove it's boon towards then just being a DRG.

I'll only deal with the four classes/jobs I major in. I already expressed my LNC/DRG above.

ARC and BRD damage the same? Dear me, Invigorate and Blood for Blood increase the ARC's damage tremendously over the BRD. Since you love to use self-heal as an example to counter against classes, I'll use this as a case where ARC's can self-heal better than BRD with second wind and bloodbath. ARC's can have a higher chance of evading attacks on Featherfoot. Survivability of an ARC versus a BRD in solo situations? Winner goes to ARC.

A CNJ's damage output is much better than a WHM's. In solo situations, while your stone and aero combos are on cooldown, rock out with a Thunder. Need to attack, but want HP as well? Necrogenesis your Aerora. About to be hit by a large attack and want more MP to nuke/heal more? Rock out with a Sanguine Rite. In small parties, you want to damage more, but don't want enmity? Quelling Strike and Chameleon afterwards. Winner in terms of damage and adaptability? CNJ.

And THM and BLM....I don't even need to go into this. Just look at Ifrit parties - why are THM's always requested over BLMs? The sacred prism effect for both stoneskin and sanguine rite, the ability to help with curing and raising the dead....you can't just take damage into account. For solo-ing, BLM's will definitely go down faster against high-damaging opponents.

The only way that you will always have a Job outperform a Class is if you play your class as if you will play your job. They're two different ENTITIES - jobs are a SPECIALISATION of a possible role that the class was shaped around. As a job, you PLAY that role. As a class, you play a MIX of roles. Why limit yourself to just one role when you can adapt to so many others as a class?

[Vaymathias]

If they do want it to be "class is better for solo and job is better for party", then they need to retool the classes even further, and not be afraid to have all the base classes step on each others toes.

The classes would have to each be able to fulfill multiples roles. Gladiator would have to lose some defensive abilities and traits and gain some offensive abilities and traits, which would be lost and replaced (the new offensive traits and abilities) upon switching to PLD for defensive/support/party support abilities.

A change like that for all the classes and jobs is how that would work. The classes as they stand now, for the MOST part, are just watered down classes. Adding class specific gear, doesn't change that.

[Asiaine]

THM versus BLM is pretty close. THM is very useful at times, but loses out on overall dmg to BLM slightly. We've tried it a lot. Same stats etc. I'd say this is even.

Seriously, I don't see any argument for saying Classes can Solo better than Jobs. Not trying to be a dick or start an argument, but I'd like to know when a class >> job. Please don't say lolraises. If you are having to raise in parties, your healers or your tank is messing up. Simple.

Hello,

I use THM & BLM a lot. I find THM MUCH better than BLM. But it does depend on your situation.

If you are fighting a mob that is hard, and there is no way you can beat it with the damage of BLM before it beats you up, then you are better off with THM.

BLM will let you sleep the mob, but after time the mob resists, so you can not sleep tough mobs often enough to heal & continue fighting.

THM will let you sleep the mob, AND allow you to heal/stoneskin/protect yourself. It will also allow you to heal/stoneskin yourself if sleep is not sticking, allowing you another chance to land it.

I like to solo coffer mobs (1st, 2nd, and 3rd chests) and this would either be riskier or not possible with BLM versus THM. Stoneskin, Protect, Sentinel does make the difference.

That being said, it really is only when fighting tough mobs that Solo THM is better than BLM.

[ToraFomalhaut]

Honestly, classes should just become jobs at level 30, there is no real reason for the two to exist after that any more. It's really that simple in my honest opinion.

[KiraAmane]

I'm just going to quote myself here as well:

And the fact that as a LNC, PGL, MRD or THM you have access to stoneskin...why would you even think about not having that when you go solo? It's basically like an extension to your HP bar - you get zero damage for a specified amount. Why waste having to build up to self-heal or cure when you can just bypass that easily? That's already one huge plus to have classes instead of jobs as solo.

Classes are also meant to be more MALLEABLE. Yes, you can solo seven lvl 50-52 mobs easily as a DRG rather than as a LNC, but it isn't impossible. If I can do that in Zahar'ak on my LNC, I believe that counts. But once you use up dread spike....once you use up Second Wind....and more mobs come along and agro....what then? You're a sitting duck until your timers flash back again, by which time the higher survivability of the LNC will prove it's boon towards then just being a DRG.

I'll only deal with the four classes/jobs I major in. I already expressed my LNC/DRG above.

ARC and BRD damage the same? Dear me, Invigorate and Blood for Blood increase the ARC's damage tremendously over the BRD. Since you love to use self-heal as an example to counter against classes, I'll use this as a case where ARC's can self-heal better than BRD with second wind and bloodbath. ARC's can have a higher chance of evading attacks on Featherfoot. Survivability of an ARC versus a BRD in solo situations? Winner goes to ARC.

A CNJ's damage output is much better than a WHM's. In solo situations, while your stone and aero combos are on cooldown, rock out with a Thunder. Need to attack, but want HP as well? Necrogenesis your Aerora. About to be hit by a large attack and want more MP to nuke/heal more? Rock out with a Sanguine Rite. In small parties, you want to damage more, but don't want enmity? Quelling Strike and Chameleon afterwards. Winner in terms of damage and adaptability? CNJ.

And THM and BLM....I don't even need to go into this. Just look at Ifrit parties - why are THM's always requested over BLMs? The sacred prism effect for both stoneskin and sanguine rite, the ability to help with curing and raising the dead....you can't just take damage into account. For solo-ing, BLM's will definitely go down faster against high-damaging opponents.

The only way that you will always have a Job outperform a Class is if you play your class as if you will play your job. They're two different ENTITIES - jobs are a SPECIALISATION of a possible role that the class was shaped around. As a job, you PLAY that role. As a class, you play a MIX of roles. Why limit yourself to just one role when you can adapt to so many others as a class?

Wait, a LNC aiding people and tanking? I just loled. LNC/DRG is strictly a DD. If you are curing or doing anything else, your party frankly sucks? Attune a LNC to magic? I literally lol'ed. I have nothing to say about these absurd things. Stoneskin on a solo person is ok, but when I don't need it and can burn the mob down faster what is the point of it? If you really need to heal yourself as a solo player on DRG, use livesurge instead of powersurge... I find everything you said about LNC to be moot. And if I'm not main tanking, I run through as DRG and wreak havoc on a consistent basis.

ARC vs BRD, invigorate versus minuet or paeon? The songs out balance anything invigorate can do for you. And one blood for blood versus a Rain of Death? I don't even need to compare the two. I was using self heal as an example of durability of BRD because you were mentioning it's easier to survive on your classes. I was simply making a counter argument, not saying that self heal on BRD was why it was better. The songs make it stronger, even in solo. I mean minuet gives you accuracy. That is HUGE for a solo player.

CNJ versus WHM. Regen. Again. I refuse to say anything else. I guess I could mention Presence of Mind too. Also who the hell wants a CNJ damaging anything lol. You are a healer on CNJ and WHM. Nothing else.

I don't need you to get into THM and BLM because I already agreed they can be switched in and out.

[raelee]

I don't understand how anyone responding to this thread would EVER choose a class over a job.

Classes are also meant to be more MALLEABLE. Yes, you can solo seven lvl 50-52 mobs easily as a DRG rather than as a LNC, but it isn't impossible.

Why would you go through the trouble when it's easier on DRG?

While, yes, you have access to more abilities, it's just a hassle.

Archer: While, yes, you do have invigorate, as a bard you also have Paeon. So, there's not real argument there. As a bard, you also have Cure, Stoneskin, Sanguine Right if need be, and raise. You also have Rain of Death as Bard, which is a beast weaponskill. The ONLY stipulation is that it takes 3000 TP. That is the ONLY argument you actually have.

Lancer? Why, god why, would you ever need access to Stoneskin? Dragoon completely destroys everything, plus, as Kira mentioned earlier, you can cure yourself with Dread Spike, plus you have access to Second Wind, which does not really have THAT long of a cooldown. Even at soloing, by the time you'd need it again, it would already be up.

Pug? No, just no.

Thaum: You loose quite a few things going from BLM to Thaum. Freeze, for one. If you're in a small party there is probably going to be a time that you'll want to reduce your hate. Flare. Great AoE.

Conj vs. WHM? Holy! Duh! No, but seriously, if you're in a small party and want to nuke much, just use Shroud of Saints. Reduces enmity. 'Nuff said. Plus, Prescence of Mind if in need for quick spells such as Stoneskin, or of course, Raise. Hell, even Holy.

MRD: They don't get collusion. Who the hell DOESN'T want collusion? o_o

Wait, a LNC aiding people and tanking? I just loled. LNC/DRG is strictly a DD.

Yeah dude, this isn't Tera....