New Gear... for class only? [Glaring Issue] [Request]

[Inaaca]

Jobs are still very new, and SE is still working on defining the balance between Jobs and Classes. One of the things they said they'd do to help define them is start releasing Class and Job specific gear that were different in their focus. This is the first wave of Class specific gear.

Honestly, though, I don't see the need for all this fuss. If Jobs can have specific gear, I see no reason why Classes can't. SE is clearly determined to keep this system, so we might as well embrace it and see where they take it in the future.

[whoopeeragon]

Wait, a LNC aiding people and tanking? I just loled. LNC/DRG is strictly a DD. If you are curing or doing anything else, your party frankly sucks? Attune a LNC to magic? I literally lol'ed. I have nothing to say about these absurd things. Stoneskin on a solo person is ok, but when I don't need it and can burn the mob down faster what is the point of it? If you really need to heal yourself as a solo player on DRG, use livesurge instead of powersurge... I find everything you said about LNC to be moot. And if I'm not main tanking, I run through as DRG and wreak havoc on a consistent basis.

Yea, ok, lets have your actual WHM/CNJ die, and no one else can raise. Oh, but wait, I'm LNC, so I have raise, but I HAVE to damage, even though monster can't die anytime soon and the rest of my party is getting massacred. I'm the only with Raise, but I JUST HAVE to damage! I can sacred prism and stoneskin my party so they don't get as hurt, then raise the healer, but NO, I WANT TO DAMAGE. Oh look, the tank died, and the rest of my parties are mages, BUT I HAVE TO DAMAGE, so I can't tank! Oh look, the THM/BLM is tanking. BUT WHO CARES, I NEED TO DAMAGE.

As for lolling....I don't think you noticed I was taking it as if envisioning the game as real world. Of COURSE the LNC in the GAME will be different from what it would be in RL. But in doing so, it isn't that hard to see that the requirements of 'training' to be a LNC is much different to training to become a DRG. Thinking outside the square.....do you guys do that often, or do you stick to one and stay with it all the way?

My god, I thought that classes had a point in that you could ADAPT to situations as such! WHY can't people be more OPEN to options about how to use your class? MUST you PIGEONHOLE yourself into a role as a class when the job DOES that for you? USE your brain and skills to suit YOUR needs, not what the JOB demands of you. You're on a CLASS, not a JOB.

Paeon of War can't be used immediately at the start of the battle. Yes, it may last longer, but the initial burst of TP from invigorate helps out faster, instead of standing there peppering arrows at the enemies, using paeon of war, peppering enemies again...You mentioned burning down enemies faster as a DRG rather than a LNC. Well, wouldn't an ARC burn down enemies faster than a BRD? And accuracy? Hawk's eye? Are we forgetting the normal abilities that ARC had already, and using BRD ones to justify?

Who wants a CNJ to damage? Fine. Solo. And don't damage. Tell me how you do. Or your party's falling dead around you, and enemy has only a little bit of HP remaining that you can easily nuke away. Oh no, I'll just raise, and protect, and regen, and stoneskin and...oh wait, I'm dead, enemy is almost dead, everyone else is dead. Yay, we're all happy, because I was just trying to heal you guys? What, I could have used an aero then a holy and killed him? No, I had to heal you guys because that's my job! As usual, you go PIGEON-LOCKING yourself in as a class when the class is meant for you to be VERSATILE in what you do.

Thaum: You loose quite a few things going from BLM to Thaum. Freeze, for one. If you're in a small party there is probably going to be a time that you'll want to reduce your hate. Flare. Great AoE.

There's one problem here though - you are severely neglecting the potential of cross-classing abilities. Losing hate? What about archer abilities? You have massive hate on you? Pop Chameleon, instant downer. Freeze has a, what, 5 second cast timer? Can be interrupted? If you really wanted enmity gone, you would use those other abilities. Flare. Long cast time. Must be around you to hit. Fire combo. Faster cast time. You can be a RANGED attacker as well.

Conj vs. WHM? Holy! Duh! No, but seriously, if you're in a small party and want to nuke much, just use Shroud of Saints. Reduces enmity. 'Nuff said. Plus, Prescence of Mind if in need for quick spells such as Stoneskin, or of course, Raise. Hell, even Holy.

Shroud of Saints - last 20 seconds. Recast timer, 3 minutes. Less with CNJ ability. And TEMPORARY reduction. Holy - all MP gone. Oh, lovely....now I can't do anything else. And Holy is not a normal NUKING magic - it's situational...

You know what? At the end of the day, we can all go pick situations that fit our arguments. So why don't we take that as a sign and say that they can both co-exist? Neither one takes away from the other. Each one can exist indepedently. You take your situations and try to make the classes sound worthless. I take my situations and try to glorify my classes to make them sound priceless. What's the point, really....as Inaaca says if Jobs can be specific in gear, why can't classes, when they're equally at the right to obtain as such.

[Eliseus]

I've never soloed better on my class than my job. Here, I'll even break it down, and I'd like you to tell me how the job is worse than the class.

GLA versus PLD -- PLD sacrifices some HP, for higher VIT, more DMG skills, more heals, more mp. Winner, Job.

LNC versus DRG -- DRG has much more dmg, can self cure with dead spike. I can solo 7 rank 50-52 mobs on my DRG. I can't even come close on my LNC. Winner, DRG.

ARC versus BRD -- ARC and BRD DMG is similar. The songs however favor the BRD. You can raise on BRD and heal on BRD. Winner, BRD.

CNJ versus WHM -- Regen on WHM. Enough said. Winner, job.

THM versus BLM is pretty close. THM is very useful at times, but loses out on overall dmg to BLM slightly. We've tried it a lot. Same stats etc. I'd say this is even.

PGL versus MNK -- You can self heal on PGL, but your MNK is a MONSTER on dps. If you aren't evading and stunning enough its not that PGL is better or useful as a solo class, you just aren't playing MNK properly. Pacification, kicks, more dmg overall on MNK. Winner, JOB.

Seriously, I don't see any argument for saying Classes can Solo better than Jobs. Not trying to be a dick or start an argument, but I'd like to know when a class >> job. Please don't say lolraises. If you are having to raise in parties, your healers or your tank is messing up. Simple.

As someone that takes a lot of pride in DRG, you are full of **** if you can solo better on drg then lnc or just really bad with lnc. Just saying

[Konsentrate]

I can only really speak for Disciples of Magic (and Bard/Archer a little):

I find THM to be very useful, and different to play than BLM. Still, even with access to cure, stoneskin, raise, sentinel, etc. I think BLM is far better. Slightly better non-melded gear to add materia to should make it more likely that I choose to not top DPS, and instead support my party with THM.

I don't find CNJ very useful at all, though they do have damage mitigation, hate managment, resonance and AoE SR that they get that WHM doesnt. It's still not usuable over WHM for most purposes, maybe that gear will allow a CNJ to be support damage with the right materia in it.

I've been stoked about this gear for a while now, to be honest.

[TheVedis]

Making class only gear available to jobs would defeat the purpose of it being class only

nuf said

[Teknoman]

Honestly, classes should just become jobs at level 30, there is no real reason for the two to exist after that any more. It's really that simple in my honest opinion.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

Jobs are still very new, and SE is still working on defining the balance between Jobs and Classes. One of the things they said they'd do to help define them is start releasing Class and Job specific gear that were different in their focus. This is the first wave of Class specific gear.

Honestly, though, I don't see the need for all this fuss. If Jobs can have specific gear, I see no reason why Classes can't. SE is clearly determined to keep this system, so we might as well embrace it and see where they take it in the future.

I think most people are just ticked off that the new items actually look really nice, yet are class only. I admit, I really want to use that sword and axe.

[Matsume]

I concur. I've yet to find a situation where my class is more beneficial than my jobs for soloing, even more so due to the fact that my Darklight gear is job only. Even then, I find it easier to play the jobs than I do the classes.

The fact this gear that entices us to play classes and is arguably more expensive and difficult to obtain than Darklight (which only requires a solid group and a bit of luck) just doesn't seem right.

I'm not saying I want to see this stuff easier to obtain, but I want it to be useful like the OP has said. Even if I had this gear, I don't think I'd want to play my classes over my jobs in 95% of situations.

Arguably nothing. You can get this stuff solo and a lot more quickly than darklight - and it's meldable. It's fine for what it is and should continue to be restricted to classes.

100% Agree with Brannigan on this point. This gear is much easier to obtain than Darklight. 100K is chump change. It's meldable and class specific. So what? They have JSE for jobs, and CSE for classes, seems logical to me. You might as well argue for making AF armor usable by classes LOL.

I think SE is going for "Diversity" in that maybe players will be tempted to use classes as much as jobs if given appropriate gear. Move along, nothing to see here...

[Ruisu]

Not sure if there was a post about the new gear/weapons. But why on earth are they Class related only?

The way I justified it (and this took a lot of effort to justify) was that SE wants players who have classes ranked up. but not jobs, to have gear. This would typically be intended for newer players I assume. Though I could see players using THM instead of BLM, I have a hard time visioning players choosing GLD/MRD/LNC/ARC over their respective jobs.

The fact of the matter is, though, that if SE intended for the new gear to be used by new players there is a glaring hole in this justification: the gear will be much too expensive for new players to buy. Coke costing 100k, and the rarity of the materials forces crafters to charge several million to break even for their efforts. How do new players compensate for this?

I frankly find the new gear to be very useful. The stats are pretty solid, and being meldable helps their case more. But the fact that they are class only renders them almost useless. I would like to know if people agree, and if so, will SE consider changing it so Jobs can utilize the new gear.

Have you seen the gryphonskin gear? ARC is a completely viable DD now if you doublemeld that stuff. Especially for those people disappointed about ARC becoming a BRD.

GLA can regenerate MP, while not pulling as much hate as, say PLD (pffffffft.), which would be it's benefit.

I don't want that gear to be used for Jobs, especially those hideous cinderblocks being for Monk.

[Matsume]

Have you seen the gryphonskin gear? ARC is a completely viable DD now if you doublemeld that stuff. Especially for those people disappointed about ARC becoming a BRD.

GLA can regenerate MP, while not pulling as much hate as, say PLD (pffffffft.), which would be it's benefit.

I don't want that gear to be used for Jobs, especially those hideous cinderblocks being for Monk.

HEY! Those cinder blocks are NOT hideous! The correct term is: EXPANDABLE MOLTEN DARKSTEEL. U LRN.

[Gramul]

What are you soloing at level 50 exactly? o_o

Mostly company seals at this point.