Asmongold on NSFW mods

[Zsolen]

Could someone on the other side of the discussion please take the time to explain to me why the community has to make up the difference of the parents responsibilities just because we happen to share the same space on the internet. It seems weird to what to place any responsibilities of ones children with random strangers on the internet, just does not seem to match together with the general notion of potential harm to children.

Society couldn't function if people did not look out for one another. That is just a part of adulthood. It's silly to have a parent sit with their teen just to play FFXIV, because people want to breach TOS.

I don't take issue to pedophiles that separate themselves from children and get help. I don't really care about ERP, as long as people take real measures to exclude minors, do it in private, and don't force it on anyone. Right now many people even admit they don't take measures. A minor's judgement is not the same as an adult's. That's why they can't consent legally and why responsibility falls to the adults. I don't care about mods, as long as people are private, don't weaponize it, or use it to promote NSFW imagery of minors. But when people do these things, it becomes a major issue.

Liberty comes with responsibility. SE is more or less not acting all that much, so right now it falls to personal responsibility. If people fail in their responsibility and don't fix their act, SE will be forced to intervene and that liberty is removed, possibly through a method none of us wants.

So here you have a non-selfish answer and a selfish answer. An adult in society must act accordingly for the benefit of society. As for the selfish, if people don't stop the really bad stuff, we all get hit.

[Goji1639]

Society couldn't function if people did not look out for one another. That is just a part of adulthood. It's silly to have a parent sit with their teen just to play FFXIV, because people want to breach TOS.

It's like because you want the internet to be some safe space for kids you're encouraging parents to behave like it actually is one. It's not; OF COURSE parents should be sitting with and monitoring their kids interactions on FFXIV if they want to let their kids play it. If you can't do that then DON'T let your kids online under any circumstances.

"B-b-b-but the ToS" is just an excuse to be lazy. No parent in their right mind is going to assume THAT's going to provide reasonable protection from millions of random adults. Even if SE did try to enforce the ToS by having the game conduct questionably legal scans of their customers client PCs, those can be worked around. There's literally no stopping this kind of thing.

"I'm not going to watch my kid; everyone else just needs to behave and watch him for me" is nonsense. Don't let your kids out in public if you don't plan to supervise them, and the internet is public.

[Zsolen]

<More parent blaming>

That's not how the real world works. Parents have a lot of responsibilities, and watching every moment a kid plays FFXIV is the dumbest thing I've heard in this thread. You're insane if you think parents won't let teens play a teen game w/o supervision. Blaming the parents is essentially an extension of victim blaming.

Yes I understand people that intent to groom exist, everyone in this thread has already said they are in the wrong and should be punished. Also it is extremely easy to get a fake ID especially if they do not need a physical one and only need to show proof of it via a screen shot. Photoshop or any editing program are not difficult to find or use.

Please understand I do not think they should get a pass but I also do not think no one is really willing to do what what is necessary to combat such things in a preemptive manner. As another poster mentioned that would require us to give up our anonymity and I doubt many parents would even be in favor of that. As such only methods we have to combat such things will always be reactive in nature. Though through proper education and supervision the bad actor can be caught fairly early in the act before any serious damage was done. I do not ERP, but if it is anything like real thing the foreplay should be an important factor.

Cause let us be fair what you are pushing for intended or not is the either getting rid of player anonymity or moving towards punishing individuals for a potential harm they may or may not cause. Both of which do not seem like very logical positions. In the end the responsibility falls on the parent as mentioned I have an FC mate that monitors what their child does in game, they also play along side of them. For the longest time they legit only let them use a F2P account, and when they upgraded their account they went into the setting and turned off the all the chat functions for a time. They still worked 12 hour days, but found the time to monitor their child to keep them safe cause as you mentioned they understand that this game does have some unsavory forms of entertainment especially on the PF. Good parents find the time to monitor their children, bad one make excuses and pass the buck to others because that is just easier.

Lying about your age is easier than doing anything else, which is the point. Asking for someone's age does nothing. Anything more actually forces the minor to commit to the lie and it actually makes the story of the fool that fell for it more plausible.

Playing the ignorant card is no excuse. You are already doing something that is not only against terms of service, but you are doing something potentially illegal in many countries.

Throwing up your hands and saying "nothing can be done" is why groomers are emboldened, as SE is put in a bad position. Don't say no one is willing to put a stop to it, because many people actually care about kids.

[Awha]

That's not how the real world works. Parents have a lot of responsibilities, and watching every moment a kid plays FFXIV is the dumbest thing I've heard in this thread. You're insane if you think parents won't let teens play a teen game w/o supervision. Blaming the parents is essentially an extension of victim blaming.



Lying about your age is easier than doing anything else, which is the point. Asking for someone's age does nothing. Anything more actually forces the minor to commit to the lie and it actually makes the story of the fool that fell for it more plausible.

Playing the ignorant card is no excuse. You are already doing something that is not only against terms of service, but you are doing something potentially illegal in many countries.

Throwing up your hands and saying "nothing can be done" is why groomers are emboldened, as SE is put in a bad position. Don't say no one is willing to put a stop to it, because many people actually care about kids.

Ahh, so that is what this is really about, the poor sap that fell their the machinations of the savy minor. In truth a part of you just does not want to believe that some minors are just scum that will do anything in their power to get what they want because they know they have a greater degree of protection in the form of plausible deniably. Everyone in this thread has agreed that devious adults exist, why can you not admit that devious minors exist, and lazy parents that shirk their responsivities off on others also exist. Cause those are the type of people many of us are fighting against and not willing to give up our own enjoyment because they exist, SE and the law already have tools in place to help those who have been prayed on. Sure many only time into play after the fact that but that is how our system works innocent until proven guilty. Also as for your point towards Goji, I know of many parents that do just that cause they know the internet is not a safe place to be and do everything in their power to make sure their child is as safe as possible. Please many parents make it work, parenting is about sacrifice good parents make it work no matter what end of story. It is a poor excuse to blame other responsibilities to shirk on your responsibilities of being a parent.

So let me get this straight though if SE required ID verification, you would be 100% okay with this? I for certain know of many parents that would not been to keen on having to provide ID verification for themselves or their children, let alone a private discord / FC as a means of making sure everyone is of age. TBH I cannot think of any person I know that would be okay with giving up their anonymity because grooming exists. Though I cannot recall, what was your solution to this? Also let us be fair you know what I mean by no one, cause we both know in the grand scheme majority of players will not be down giving up their anonymity to protect the kids.

Also it is extremely easy to get a fake ID or get someone to post a picture holding their ID and telling them what they would need to say for 5 bucks. I should know, I did it to get into an DayZ RP server as a kid. Voice change software is also easy to come by.

Two points. One, why the attack on nationality? Two, someone disagrees with me therefore must be an alt is a tired counter point.

This forum has a thing for forum alts, been called a troll myself because I am an alt and my view points. What people do not get is many people use forum alts to keep their ingame and forum interactions separate. Which is part of thing that Zsolen needs to learn that many people like their anonymity on the internet, and in the grand scheme I really think they will be hard pressed to get people to give that up because of a potential harm to children.

[Zsolen]

This forum has a thing for forum alts, been called a troll myself because I am an alt and my view points. What people do not get is many people use forum alts to keep their ingame and forum interactions separate. Which is part of thing that Zsolen needs to learn that many people like their anonymity on the internet, and in the grand scheme I really think they will be hard pressed to get people to give that up because of a potential harm to children.

What you need to learn is you have are one of the most ignorant people on the forums, and you are always the type to think you need to educate others. You really need to self-reflect.

Kids aren't going to register to a discord with real info to ERP. What are you even talking about?

Again, I'm a libertarian against all the oversight that Bush and Obama wanted. If you are for that type of stuff, that is fine. This isn't about politics. However, I would much rather give SE more data than endanger people. As for Discord, I wouldn't join a Discord that wanted more info, but I don't ERP. If I did, I would make sure not to ERP with minors. It's a lot easier than people make it out to be.

[MintnHoney]

What you need to learn is you have are one of the most ignorant people on the forums, and you are always the type to think you need to educate others. You really need to self-reflect

Meanwhile, you're the one talking down to him, calling him names, belligerently calling out titles and entitlements to bolster your self-worth, and saying everyone is wrong without providing reasons. I bet you're proud of it, too.

Well, have you is me this: why is it that you believe that you would have an infallible system of being able to weed out minors, if you were to RP, when people who could almost deem themselves professionals with the level of experience they carry for RPing, E or otherwise, either could never do it properly and, therefore, shouldn't RP, or have to be cautious?
What's your secret? Is it the Z in Zsolen?

apparently they're doing a really good job of selecting specific parts to respond to and make it seem like people are arguing against mods or private ERP in general..

Just like you are technically cherry-picking replies to consider when you write this quote. Because a lot of the arguing really has been "but a and b are innocent, leave them be" versus "but c and d are a problem, therefore abcdefg must all be removed."
But I suppose it's fine when you cherry-pick, because, well, it's you, and you can't be bothered to look at the rest of the thread. Which is totally understandable (no sarcasm, it's a 115 page thread), but please understand that both "sides" are growing flagrantly beyond their original scope for a thread, all because of a hypothetical based upon something that may have happened, a hypothetical that could possibly happen in the future, or an internet scandal that happened to someone that is both unrelated to what's being argued over and who is generally outside the scope of the argument.

[Raasu]

Just like you are technically cherry-picking replies to consider when you write this quote. Because a lot of the arguing really has been "but a and b are innocent, leave them be" versus "but c and d are a problem, therefore abcdefg must all be removed."
But I suppose it's fine when you cherry-pick, because, well, it's you, and you can't be bothered to look at the rest of the thread. Which is totally understandable (no sarcasm, it's a 115 page thread), but please understand that both "sides" are growing flagrantly beyond their original scope for a thread, all because of a hypothetical based upon something that may have happened, a hypothetical that could possibly happen in the future, or an internet scandal that happened to someone that is both unrelated to what's being argued over and who is generally outside the scope of the argument.

I agree with you how it's generally a couple of outliers steering the discussion, but think in this case it's unfair to single me out for cherry-picking since I only provided examples from posts in this thread when the person I quoted asked for evidence. Same for the assumption that I haven't read the rest of the thread, even though I kinda wish I hadn't.

To me it just feels unnecessary to put that personal attack-like twist to your message, I guess.

[Alaray]

Kids aren't going to register to a discord with real info to ERP. What are you even talking about?

I don't have stake in the rest of whatever is going on, but this does happen and has always happened. I'm fine with ERP in the game and all that, kept to the proper channels etc. etc... but this statement just isn't accurate. Most those discords can do, outside of the "be 18+ to be here" is ban those users if it ever comes out they are under 18. Same story for any explicit website and so on. Same for nsfw artists on social media etc. etc...

[Awha]

What you need to learn is you have are one of the most ignorant people on the forums, and you are always the type to think you need to educate others. You really need to self-reflect.

Kids aren't going to register to a discord with real info to ERP. What are you even talking about?

Again, I'm a libertarian against all the oversight that Bush and Obama wanted. If you are for that type of stuff, that is fine. This isn't about politics. However, I would much rather give SE more data than endanger people. As for Discord, I wouldn't join a Discord that wanted more info, but I don't ERP. If I did, I would make sure not to ERP with minors. It's a lot easier than people make it out to be.

Do you really think that kids will not lie to gain access to content they are not old enough to be part of? REALLY?

You call me ignorant fair so educated how can we prevent online grooming before it even happens without any oversight and asking for age verification. If you have the answer I am sure everyone here would love to hear it cause from what I could tell everyone here is agaisnt grooming.

Also remember this is not about you or what you would do. It is about what kids have done when it comes to taking part in content or activities not suitable for them.

Pretty difficult when people keep ignoring a big part of this garbage thread.

- People are claiming that adults engaging with minors online is a safe way to satisfy sexual urges.
- Persisting that pedophilia is just a regular fetish.
- Statements that pedophiles are facing the same problems as the LGBTQ-community, and how that community should show empathy.
- Normalizing the sexual depiction of nude minors as long as they're not hyper-hyper realistic.
- Shifting blame entirely to parents, and in situations when there aren't any (living or functional) parents around, to the teens themselves.

Though to their credit, apparently they're doing a really good job of selecting specific parts to respond to and make it seem like people are arguing against mods or private ERP in general...

I do not think anyone here has said adults interacting with actual children is a healthy or safe way to satisfy urges. More so that interacting with fake none real deceptions of minors is a safer outlet then trying to repress the urges for years while also dealing with general everyday stress. At the very least the latter part is my stance.

I also do not think anyone who falls into the camp of it being a fetish have made the claim it is a regular fetish. Though I personally fall into the camp of it being more so an orientation then a fetish. Which I get is controversial.

Yes people have said this I myself included though what exactly is wrong with this view? Generally speaking Loli hentai is considered okay because they either do not look or are seen as actual children. On a personal level it might bother people though from a legal context (correct me if I am wrong) I do not think anyone has been actually convicted just for the possession of non realistic depictions of minors.

Though I will admit my stance as to what is hyper realistic vary so I will say even if laws are against it I personally do not think images that are not realistic and have not used actual minors are models is fair cause no actual child was exploited.

As for your final point yes generally many of us have placed the responsibility of children's actions on the parents. I am also sure many do understand many do not have parents as you said living or functional but while I cannot speak for others only myself. Why does that point matter? Why should the community pick up the slack because some kids parents have passed away or functionally do not care. In short why is it our problem?

[Kyuuen]

That's not how the real world works. Parents have a lot of responsibilities, and watching every moment a kid plays FFXIV is the dumbest thing I've heard in this thread. You're insane if you think parents won't let teens play a teen game w/o supervision. Blaming the parents is essentially an extension of victim blaming.

That is how the world works though...

For instance, lets say I'm a parent. I'm a parent that likes an occasional hard drink (not to get drunk; don't turn this into that) and as such I have a liquor cabinet. I forget to lock it one day and am away from the house for a period of time and my teen gets into it. Is the liquor company responsible for selling it to me in the first place? The cabinet company, for not designing the cabinet to lock automatically? Or mine, for not taking the necessary preventative measures for keeping my teen safe? Something tells me it's the latter.

Gun people have gun safes and locks for individual guns? Why? To keep people from them that shouldn't have access to them.

We; as a society, have laws about trespassing and breaking and entering, but I'm willing to bet every dime, nickle, and cent I have and am worth that you still lock your doors of a night.

Yet, when it comes to the internet it shifts to 'think of the chilins'. The internet is filled with people from different cultures, different backgrounds, differing values, and differing mind sets. If you are leaving the internet open to your child with little to no parental security settings or guidance, then THAT IS on you as a parent. Full stop, end of discussion. That includes online games that have some form of chat accessible to them, as you never know what someone can or will say.

Are there predators out there? Absolutely, and they should be buried under the prisons.

But stop holding the internet hostage to the failings of poor parentage.