Asmongold on NSFW mods

[EirolOcarrol]

I strongly disagree Puritanism or Prudishness is some kind of buzzword that is overused. It is a sadly enduring cultural phenomenon and cultural problem. It applies in a multitude of aspects of society. And there's no reason to assume that video game communities would be exempt from this mindset.

Also it's no wonder that people have described this thread as being an all around poor experience with various expressions. This is basically no more than the nine millionth iteration of the "Proshipper vs. Anti" culture war. Not once have I not seen this conversation not boil down to one side saying "you like problematic things, get therapy, freak" and the other side saying some variation of "fiction is not the same as reality, please learn the difference between fiction and reality". The same moral drama and purity policing is happening in the Genshin Impact fandom right now over Kaeya and Diluc shippers.

This is an old song being played. And the argument is never not toxic.

I personally sympathize with the Proshipper side of this culture war. And consider myself Sex Positive. I think that what people enjoy in fiction as a kink doesn't necessarily reflect their real life morals. Even if it's something I find distasteful I don't think someone is a bad person for enjoying it. I find the content of Mortal Kombat disgusting, so I just don't play it. I also find the content in Made in Abyss distressing and not fun, unappealing, disturbing, even. So I just don't watch it. I wish people could express that sort of live and let live attitude instead of trying to police others so much. It doesn't matter if you kink shame people for fictional incest, vore, furry, or anything else, people aren't going to stop liking that thing, just more toxic arguments online.

Personally, as someone who has spent a lot of money on Final Fantasy XIV, and proudly have had my account since 1.0. And as someone who has seen how toxic this has become. People stalked for even admitting to being a Proshipper and nothing beyond that, and worse than stalking. Toxic things I don't want to repeat. I didn't want my character, account, and player experience to be marred by this drama and culture war. I don't want to be internet infamous.

But I will go ahead and jump in that rabbit hole and hope for the best by saying that: I think that some of you are taking people's fictional kinks way too seriously as a reflection of morals. It's natural to be really immersed in games and characters, that's the whole point of fiction. And I won't say that there is a zero effect of fiction on reality. But some people are taking it way too far. Someone can like something different than you without being a predator.

I say this because people are drawing correlations or connections between making nude mods, and ERPing, which is a morally neutral to good thing. To people sexually soliciting minors in game and grooming them. These are two very different things. Using nude mods is not the same as ERPing. And ERPing between adults is not the same as grooming minors and does not lead to grooming minors. You are being unreasonable if you claim otherwise.

[Zsolen]

I say this because people are drawing correlations or connections between making nude mods, and ERPing, which is a morally neutral to good thing. To people sexually soliciting minors in game and grooming them. These are two very different things. Using nude mods is not the same as ERPing. And ERPing between adults is not the same as grooming minors and does not lead to grooming minors. You are being unreasonable if you claim otherwise.

People can tell the difference between adult activity between adults and adult activity between an adult an a child. They can also tell the difference between modding and ERP. FFXIV is known for both modding minor characters in a sexual light and grooming minors, because it has happened, and it will continue to happen. These people try to lump those concerned about minors into something it is not. Not many would care all that much if it was adults doing ERP privately or quietly using a NSFW mod on themselves w/o saying anything. The minor stuff is a simple thing to denounce. The issue is that NSFW modders and ERPers alike don't seem to interested in this problem. It is treated as a non-issue in every response I have ever received. But cooperation would be a far better thing here. I've tried cooperation in the past, but people claim nothing can be done about the minors. If I were in one of those groups or a defender of one of those groups, I would make it clear that the minor stuff is not okay and take steps to make sure that stuff doesn't happen, be it modding minors or grooming/ERP with minors. It is the defenders of these mods and ERP that say it it not possible to prevent. If we accept that as truth, we will eventually have to go scorched earth. SE can't keep the lid on this forever.

Pedophilia is not an okay fetish. it is something that is serious, and anyone that has it needs treatment, ASAP. Telling people that they don't need that treatment will put minors at risk. This goes far beyond people enjoying a video game.

I also love how everyone that sees nothing wrong with people acting on their pedophilia always claim they are the middle ground.

[EirolOcarrol]

It is treated as a non-issue in every response I have ever received. But cooperation would be a far better thing here..

Then that is a problem. The ERP community should take sexual abusers in their community seriously. I don't have many experiences with the ERP community myself. I think it is inexcusable not to make sure that everyone involved in or witness to an ERP is a consenting adult. There is no excuse to make sure this is not the case. Thankfully in my limited experience with both ERPers and modders, they've both made Tweets talking about the importance of making sure all players involved are consenting adults.

All ERPers must ensure that everyone involved in ERP is an adult. Always.
And as for screenshots and such. They should always be clearly marked and only in clearly marked NSFW spaces.

I wouldn't paint modding itself as fundamentally the problem, though.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

You can’t really take steps to ‘make sure it doesn’t happen’ unless you can get law enforcement or the people running these sites involved. And seeing as apparently this stuff has been up for years - I wish you luck on that endeavor.

[Awha]

It absolutely can be treated. It's not an orientation. Don't compare it to the LGBTQ+ community. Someone else already made that mistake.

People don't care about parsers. They only care if people are toxic with using parsers.

What is the difference between the attraction to to child verse someone of the same gender? Not the social aspect but at the core if we equalized both what would be the difference between the two?

At the base level it is an attraction. It is viewed as a fetish because of the social stigma. Also generally treatments are more so about controlling the urge less about changing their feelings / attraction towards children. If the attraction aspect could be altered then I do not think it would have such a negative connotation cause it would not be a permanent problem society would face. Also drug treatment is based around altering the sex drive not the attraction.

Criminal psychologists tend to fall into the Camp it is more so an orientation but it is still a debated topic but mainly the differences stem from an emotional stance. Remember being gay at one point was also considered a mental illness in the past.

[Zsolen]

What is the difference between the attraction to to child verse someone of the same gender? Not the social aspect but at the core if we equalized both what would be the difference between the two?

At the base level it is an attraction. It is viewed as a fetish because of the social stigma. Also generally treatments are more so about controlling the urge less about changing their feelings / attraction towards children. If the attraction aspect could be altered then I do not think it would have such a negative connotation cause it would not be a permanent problem society would face. Also drug treatment is based around altering the sex drive not the attraction.

Criminal psychologists tend to fall into the Camp it is more so an orientation but it is still a debated topic but mainly the differences stem from an emotional stance. Remember being gay at one point was also considered a mental illness in the past.

There is no child gender.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Where tf has this convo even gone. Y’all wildin

[BaconBits]

"Such devastation, this was not Plushy's intention."

[Axxion]

"Such devastation, this was not Plushy's intention."

correction: https://imgur.com/a/6PTggt9

[BaconBits]

correction: https://imgur.com/a/6PTggt9