The trouble with telling tanks W2W pulls are a mandatory norm.

[Artemiz]

The trouble is, they aren't, not even close while leveling jobs. I know I know, everyone here on the forums can pull every dungeon right from zoning in it up to the last boss and easily tank it all while the healer picks his nose, I get it. For sprouts learning the ropes, nada.

I've leveled all my tanks in dungeons, I don't do PotD because it gives me brain rot after 47 seconds and FATE grinding is a long lost relic of a bygone era, so I have a decent feel for what a tank can and can't do. W2W pulling in expert or 50/60/70 roulette is not impressive, we over-gear it by a mile and we have lots of abilities to play with. Leveling dungeons are a different story all together, especially if you are leveling through it yourself and not getting that juicy level sync ilvl bonus.

The trouble is there is a tendency for the player base to tell all new players that tanks should be going big or going home so we have what I had the other night, in a party of 3 sprouts the tank pulls the entire first room of Aurum Vale, then blames the DPS for being slow when we wipe and the healer ask him to calm down. He lost health so fast I doubt I could have saved him on level 80 BLM never mind level 49. The RDM was decent, and I've been playing BLM so long I can remember timing server ticks to triple cast flare in Wanderer's Palace when it was the current Tomestone grind, and it's not hard to get BLM AOE right.

It took Asmongold one pull of Sastasha before his chat started yelling at him to pull bigger, fortunately he has more than enough MMO experience to know when to bite of enough so he can still chew, and balls to tell his chat to stfu.

In leveling dungeons and with experienced roulette tanks and healers with sync bonus, and strong DPS you can indeed pull quite big, but if you have sprouts, especially in current dungeons for their levels, one or two packs is usually more than enough depending on the dungeon, W2W just ain't happening and that's ok.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I don't expect sprouts to pull big in low-level dungeons. They're still learning the game. I try to offer advice, but if I wanted the dungeon tanked my way that badly, I'd queue as tank and do it myself.

By Stormblood dungeons, though, I expect players to know how much they can handle and go for it.

Except for Bardam's Mettle. That one's still fairly brutal.

[Kolsykol]

I just ask if we can do big pulls usually I get no answer back and they either do it or they don't and that's that.

[Bacent]

I honestly don't care if they want to pull big or small. Big pull? We clear the dungeon faster and I can go back to being generally weird to others sooner. Small pulls? Just means it's easier for me to multi task while I'm in a dungeon/possibly give tips to new people.

There's no written rule about how someone should pull, and to anyone that complains about it, how about using your big person words and communicate while treating others like they're actual people, and not mindless bots you can boss around.

If you ask them to pull big and are uncomfortable with it, no matter the dungeon, tell them you can give tips/that you got their back, and maybe they'd be willing to try bigger pulls. If they don't answer? They don't understand you, they don't WANT to pull big and want to keep quiet because they're afraid of how people will react, or they just don't care.

Sure, some people are in a hurry/want to go as fast as possible, but if you're in a roulette with random people



Side note: Any big pulls in Aurum Vale without blue mages/full party that is experienced there is just asking for trouble. Hell, I actually groan when people try to do big pulls there

[TheMightyMollusk]

Honestly, as a mediocre healer myself, Aurum Vale isn't any worse than any other dungeon, aside from that very first room.

[Ajantisz]

The trouble is, they aren't, not even close while leveling jobs. I know I know, everyone here on the forums can pull every dungeon right from zoning in it up to the last boss and easily tank it all while the healer picks his nose, I get it. For sprouts learning the ropes, nada.

/snipped.

I had to lol at this. I don't think I have ever encountered a group telling a tank to pull bigger. Earlier today had a dungeon where the healer in their big smooth brain thinking was whinging the dungeon was taking too long because the dps didn't know their rotations instead of noticing the tank was pulling single packs, effectively doubling trash time. I completely understood the tank doing it though given the number of times I had to pick their HP up with a vercure on my instacast because the healer wasn't doing a healing/off-dps job effectively. With healers like that guy out there I am not shocked many learning tanks don't understand how to W2W pull or even want to. I tend to tank 99% of the time and it is only at max level I have found there are healers who are ready for large pulls with a full suite of instant heals and OGD's to fill in between their AoE's. In the levelling roulette many healers are still learning the job and large pulls you can see make them nervous as they often start a cast, realise it is not the best heal to use, start again, and arent dpsing at all as they are tunnel visioned keeping health bars topped.

[EtherRose]

I think the trouble lies within your thread title as it is over exaggerating on the problem. No one ever says it is "Mandatory". No one can't force you. Is it the norm in general? It is but for experienced players not new. But I've yet to see myself anyone tell someone new that W2W pulls are "Mandatory" and have to be done.

[Teno]

The bigger problem lies in the fact that dungeons are so faceroll that they become a chore that many people feel compelled to run, partly due to ease of access, popularity as an mmo staple and in the story, and generally good rewards. Thus, people want to run them and be done quick.

[Breakbeat]

Big pulls: dungeon complete in eight minutes.

Pack-by-pack pulls: dungeon complete in fifteen minutes.

I can't in good conscience try to argue that the seven-minute difference means all that much to me. If it's faster, great. If it's slower, fine. I am a normal Earth-dwelling adult, and I don't make Bezos/Musk-level salaries of fifteen-million an hour or whatever. Fifteen minutes doesn't make a lick of difference to me. I don't equate my recreational time to money, or similar trains of thought. I like FFXIV, dungeons and all, so if I spend an extra seven or ten or fifteen minutes somewhere, that's completely fine.

No playstyle is mandatory. Everyone has their own preferences and knowledgeable / flexible players should be able to adjust between various playstyles. Some will be slower, some will be faster, some less effective, some more effective. Flexibility is the mark of an excellent player (and an excellent human too, but that's another discussion for another time.)

/Shoves the door closed again so the WoW-mentality stays out in the hall.

[Ranaku]

The only time i don't tank wall to wall is when we have a scholar in the group, cause you can be sure they just read their book and afk while the poor HoT in stupid AI pet form tries to keep all the players alive. Never trust a scholar, ever!