Revelations from Tales from the Twilight

[MrThinker]

The last one is about Ishgard

[The golden-haired boy is Zephirin and he implied that Thordan had tempered him when he was in school

Quote spoiler from the story

"Bless all men... Do you suppose he can do such a thing?"(Aymeric)

Artoirel was about to reply when another stole the words right from his mouth.

"Absolutely! The archbishop is a great man!"(Zephirin)

The two turned to find a golden-haired boy, garbed in common fashion, regarding them eagerly─the son of a knight, perhaps. Seeming to remember himself, the newcomer bowed deeply as one does to one's betters, before resuming his enthusiastic account.

"His Eminence graced our school with a visit last year. He prayed for us, that we would become strong, righteous knights. 'Tis my dream to serve him one day."(Zephirin)

The boy's passion struck a chord with Artoirel, who nodded in approval. Aymeric, however, simply stared. He parted his lips as if to speak, but thinking better of it, said nothing

I'll be honest. This passage did not imply to me what you said it did. Just sounds like a publicity stunt where a famous person visits an institution and earns brownie points. Besides, we already have that interview with Oda that explains Thordan did what he did when the new Heaven's Ward were selected.

My overall impression was that this was a minor character building story for Artoirel, and backsplaining Aymeric's reactions in 4.5

[Vyrerus]

Hmm, after reading all of them... I think the first three were my favorite, and the last two are kinda lukewarm.

Thoughts on the last one 5/5

Artoirel and Aymeric are friends. Cool. Can't help but not really care about the Ishgardian dilemma, because all I really see is a parallel to the WoL and the Ancients or maybe the overall story. The Ascians have defined FFXIV for so long, so how do we move past that? This is the vibe it gave me, though it was only overtly referencing the happenings in and after Heavensward.

I suppose it is fun to imagine the little lordlings in the 17 years prior.

[Rosenstrauch]

Well, that was neat.

Story #5:

Seeing a slice of life from Ishgard in years past was unexpected, but I liked it. And it's funny to see Aymeric and Artoriel reflecting on Ishgard's foundation being a pack of lies, knowing that the same is true of the very planet they live on. I believe that was half the parallel being drawn here, with the other half being the Scions' commitment to preserving Amaurot's existence in history, as it has otherwise been erased from memory. This contrasts with the fear the Archbishop held for Ishgard, in which exposing the lies that made up its foundation would lead to the entire city collapsing into political and spiritual disaster, along with a certain present day Ascian, whose stated goal is to bring an end to everything and everyone.

Hypothesis: Fandaniel is basically Mad Stan from Batman Beyond. "Hydaelyn" is founded on the bones and ashes of the world he once presided over? Immortal aliens from another star were given dominion over this new world by the upstart goddess responsible for their destruction in exchange for being her servants? His own alleged friends and companions are abusive, malicious pricks who treat him as a tool to be used and thrown away? He is caught in an endless cycle of eternal faux-life, death, and rebirth, unable to ever truly be at rest? There's only one sane solution: Blow it all up!

I would prefer it be otherwise, if only because of the observation I made in a different thread: That Fandaniel might actually be the only Overlord left. I'd prefer that not be the case, too, but eh. At least he's entertaining in his obnoxiousness.

... oh, yeah, this story wasn't actually about Fandaniel. I guess as nice as seeing a slice of Ishgardian life is, there's not much to actually say about it. For me, at least.

EDIT: A Thought:

I've heard rumors to the effect of an NPC showing up in the Firmament, in either a questline or just as an NPC, who is an identical stranger to one of the Heaven's Ward knights. Was that particular knight Zeph? 'cause if it was, then his appearance in this story may not be a coincidence.

EDIT within an EDIT: Indeed, he's a Zephirin lookalike. Again, that's only a maybe. It could absolutely be nothing. Still.

[Cleretic]

While a nice story (and a tragically fitting timing for its release), this has... basically nothing, lore-wise. Which is fine, I don't need every story about the game to tell me some deep truth of the game world, but I do love just a brief slice of what a normal day looks like in Eorzean politics. Hell, I want all of the 6.x patches to just be dealing with local politics.

The interesting stuff here lore-wise is more implied than outright stated.

While I agree that it doesn't outright imply it, the conversation surrounding the blonde kid does have that extra dimension after the recent interview confirmed that Thordan was lightly tempering the Heaven's Ward. You can definitely look at that scene in one of two different ways given that fact, and both read as completely valid. Is it just regular dogmatic patriotism, or magical dogmatic patriotism? Would you be able to tell the difference? Because apparently none of us did until earlier this year.

[Steelbreaker25]

Regarding Thordan:

The best ones for Thordan to temper would be the most fanatical to start with. If Zeph was already "oh man, ain't the archbishop super awesome and grand?", then nobody would get suspicious if he started getting tempered.

[Veloran]

As others have noted, the last story has some striking parallels to the greater narrative of the Ancients and the old world, with the world they had thought they'd known being based on deception and ancient betrayals. The symbol of the empty throne and it's deepening shadow is also quite thought provoking in these terms. Considering this, I'm moved to reconsider the earlier stories and view them in this same light, as acting parallels rather than simply random standalone narratives.

With the Burden of Duty, it's actually so obvious I'm ashamed at not noting it before. Here you have Hien, in the midst of his lost childhood, obsessed with saving his people and fulfilling his duty, which seems an exceedingly clear parallel to Elidibus. Yugiri's line, "So much has been taken from them. So much have I taken for granted.", is also very telling from multiple angles. Kaien's refusal to fight that his people might survive is also clearly in reference to Fourchenault and Sharlayan.

In Her Father's Daughter, Merlwyb, "under the cover of a moonless night", takes it upon herself to defeat her father, and in so doing is forced to fight former friends and companions, unknowing that they've been tempered by a primal. It seems to me that this is an allegory of the conflict between the Convocation and the College, as Hydaelyn was summoned and Zodiark was sundered into the moon, turning the moonless sky into a moonlit one. From that perspective the involvement of Mistbeard and Lorens, one "setting aside his mask", and the other turning into a wandering hero, may somehow both be parallels for the same character, Azem, or perhaps someone else. If Merlwyb is effectively the Venat substitute here, it's notable that Lorens is considered "her father's son", basically making them siblings. Fandaniel maybe? People have speculated quite a bit on their connection.

Insofar as Set With the Sun, the imagery of the "setting sun" should be very clear in regards to the old world. Here Fordola is faced with the conflict of the loss of her father and the abandonment of her old life in order to forge a new one, which she is ultimately unable to do. In this story Yda, the "shepherd" of the Ala Mhigan refugees to freedom, sacrifices herself for Fordola's future against hopeless odds, ironically while playing the villain towards her. With the imagery of Yda's final sight being set against the backdrop of the setting sun, I think it's obvious here that Yda is meant as a parallel to Azem. Fordola taking on Yda's tattoo at the end and setting out with the intent to prove herself can be seen as the new life taking on the Ancient's legacy.

With True of Heart (similar to An Empty Throne), the story again begins with an obvious ancient parallel, the Seedseer Council, faced with a crisis that they cannot understand despite their best efforts, and they're paralyzed with indecision and debate as an oncoming calamity looms. Kan-E here, with her unparalleled attunement to the aether of the Twelveswood being overwhelmed by the dread and terror of the Elementals, seems poised as a parallel to Emet-Selch and his connection to the Lifestream at the time of the Final Days, her helplessness in spite of her power and responsibility to act indicative of his own at that time. The passage,

"Striving to push the panic from her mind, she began searching for accounts of similar incidents. She scoured the records of past council meetings, studied the chronicles of historians, and made discreet inquiries into the tales of traveling bards and wandering minstrels. Each time she came upon a story bearing even a passing resemblance to hers, she took great pains to reenact the hero's triumph. Ceremonies to appease forgotten gods, esoteric prayers and rituals, obscure meditations of dubious intent—she attempted every method, for the Elder Seedseer would spare no effort."

really does sound one-to-one what the Convocation must have been doing through at that time. Even Kan-E "returning to the basics" for her answer bespeaks the method the Convocation settled on for ending their apocalypse, as the summoning of Zodiark was basically the application of their most fundamental magicks scaled up. I wonder too if A-Pitat-Rapa is meant as a parallel to someone like Hythlodeus.

An Empty Throne, that's all fairly obvious. However, we also need to examine the running throughlines connecting each of the stories. In every single one, the framing device is that of memory and remembrance, each of the characters recalling a time that to them now, appears as a life long past. Again, An Empty Throne makes this more explicit than any of them by just having Artoriel say it outright. Moreover, each has a strong running theme of family, and even more specifically sibling connection and that of children to their fathers. In Burden of Duty the older Yugiri and younger Hien develop a childhood bond and Hien wants to fight for his father (and is saved by another father-figure in Gosetsu). In Her Father's Daughter the conflict is centered around Merlwyb and her father, and Lorens is effectively invented wholesale to serve the role of being a younger brotherlike figure for her. In Set With the Sun the conflict obviously begins with Fordola's grief over her father's death and Yda both references Lyse and takes the role of older sister to Fordola even, but moreso the story goes so far as to write in a new friend of Fordola, Charlet, who she describes as her "adoring younger brother". True of Heart has A-Pitat-Rapa as an older fatherly figure, and the sibling connection between Kan-E and Raya-O and A-Ruhn is played up, more specifically A-Ruhn as her younger brother being forced to bear Kan-E's burdens. An Empty Throne of course references Artoriel's father and siblings with his black sheep younger brother being left out, the brothers Hallienarte, Aymeric's conflict with his father in contrast to Zephirin adoring Thordan and even his father being referenced.

The themes of "fathers and younger brothers" is so strongly reinforced throughout all the stories that I can disregard outright the notion of coincidence. I would even say it's so hyper-specific as "older sister's conflict involving her father and younger brother" were it not for An Empty Throne being somewhat outside the mold. As to what this means for Endwalker, it's anyone's guess. As I mentioned before there's been speculation regarding the relationship between Fandaniel and Venat, but the even more obvious and immediate parallel would be Alisaie, Alphinaud, and their father Fourchenault. It seems to me that this relationship will be very much the primary one we see playing out in Endwalker, similar to Thancred and Ryne's relationship in Shadowbringers, but perhaps even moreso.

[Brightamethyst]

"That was... fine." sums up my feelings on all of these. I was pretty underwhelmed by this year's offerings. They're not bad, but I didn't find them all that interesting either. It felt like the writer(s?) tried to hard to retcon and/or retrofit old lore for no good reason.

[Vyrerus]

As others have noted

+5 if I could.

Hehe, well, when you put it like that... perhaps they're calling attention preemptively to the relationship references they'll be lifting from FFIV. In FFIV, Cecil is Golbez's younger brother. Ultimately, he is given his Paladin powers, the Power of Light, by the soul of his father. With this power in hand, his dark sword renounced, he stops his brother and does what his father could not... He puts Zemus's very soul to the sword after revealing its true form with a special Crystal, as the prayers of all his compatriots aid him in battling against it.

His Uncle is also present in the story as a late game, major player. Obviously, his Uncle is his father's brother. He serves as the exposition instrument for knowledge of the Lunarians, and joins the party to stop the Giant of Bab-il, and to also break Zemus's mind control on Golbez.

[Lauront]

*snip*

Good analysis. The references to the "younger brother" remind me of this, incidentally:

That's the sort of person Elidibus was; eager to fulfill his duty, he also respected and admired the Convocation more than any other. To many of us, he was as a younger brother of sorts.

The comparison between Kan-E-Senna and Hades, as the one with the affinity towards the Underworld (and later, he is indeed acting as a voice for the departed in the trial) is particularly apt. Her penchant for self-doubt also reminds me a bit of the similar sentiments Emet-Selch showed (refusing compliments) when talking to Hythlodaeus in his short story.

Agree on the point regarding the twins and their father's relationship - as to the relation of Aymeric to Thordan, perhaps it will be similar to the MC to Hydaelyn (or rather, Venat); I suspect her silence about the truth of the world will be rooted in the perspective that she deemed it necessary for her chosen champion to succeed, with the Empty Throne maybe being an allusion to the way the rift between the two Primals and their summoners ended their hitherto peaceful society and eventually, with the Sundering, their world. I think there is going to be a similar ends justify the means approach with Fourchenault and his children.

Also agree regarding the Kaien/Fourchenault parallel - in fact, the words here seem so similar to what he utters in the trailer regarding Sharlayan's aim:

but I do so that my people endure. That they survive..."

And yes, Hien does mirror young Elidibus and his singular focus on fulfilling his duty.

The link between Venat and Fandaniel is intriguing, assuming it materialises. He's not that detached from the ancient world, given how he throws around the term "Telophoroi", so I am keen to see what his real motive is.