Increasing number of players using 3rd party tools

[Elissar]

Absolutely disgusting. It's mods like this that will destroy the game.

I can see a time where you won't be allowed into any end game group unless you are using a UI addon that shows your ping. And don't get me started on a mod that inserts a comma into damage values. That is peak cheating and completely ruins everything the game is about.

You are trolling, ROFL
Loved your style.

[TheRealQuah]

You are trolling, ROFL
Loved your style.

Yep, I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous some of these people sound. Like the comment I've quoted below.
At what point is the community going to require you changing the colour of magic damage text to blue a pre-requisite to you entering a raid.
It's just fearmongering, and I think most of it comes from a place of envy at not being able to complete hard content and wanting to take down those who do.

Toxic casuals are and have been the biggest problem this game has. Far, far worse than any client-side addons that people like to use.

I like Yoshi P's statement on it. What is a third-party addon and where does it end? Is Excel an addon? A calculator? Discord? When he says they don't know what's on your computer and will never know, he is legitimising client side addons. That was him saying they were okay. The only thing I've seen them upset about is using mods to make lewd images of children in game (Ryne mostly).

I'd say it's a legitimate cause for concern.

SE doesn't support add ons and they're not actually legal to use, but that won't stop the community at large from requiring them if they become a common crutch for high tier content.

[Jadedsins]

Yep, I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous some of these people sound. Like the comment I've quoted below.
At what point is the community going to require you changing the colour of magic damage text to blue a pre-requisite to you entering a raid.
It's just fearmongering, and I think most of it comes from a place of envy at not being able to complete hard content and wanting to take down those who do.

Toxic casuals are and have been the biggest problem this game has. Far, far worse than any client-side addons that people like to use.

I like Yoshi P's statement on it. What is a third-party addon and where does it end? Is Excel an addon? A calculator? Discord? When he says they don't know what's on your computer and will never know, he is legitimising client side addons. That was him saying they were okay. The only thing I've seen them upset about is using mods to make lewd images of children in game (Ryne mostly).

Kinda weird since it is not real, so don't care people do that, whatever floats people boats. I guess the makers have passion and part of the chars are real to them in making the story. So it bothers them more...hey if they keep making good content with that mindset. I don't mind it.

I'm as casual as they come, and I think most casual people really don't care what raiders do or addons they use. The ones that say it is cheating or dislike it seems like a lot more because they are very loud or could be jealous console players who knows.. The only time we would have a problem, if they balance the content that we do around said addons, and they won't do it.


So if what you do and how you play will not hurt my content, or changes in the game, and I am WELL protected from being harass by players using it. I don't understand why people care, I feel like this is just a dumb sort of gatekeeping. If someone wants to use that combo addon that makes them hit the same button for a combo. Or chat bubbles. Why does that bother some people? It is weird.

[TheRealQuah]

Kinda weird since it is not real, so don't care people do that, whatever floats people boats. I guess the makers have passion and part of the chars are real to them in making the story. So it bothers them more...hey if they keep making good content with that mindset. I don't mind it.

I'm as casual as they come, and I think most casual people really don't care what raiders do or addons they use. The ones that say it is cheating or dislike it seems like a lot more because they are very loud or could be jealous console players who knows.. The only time we would have a problem, if they balance the content that we do around said addons, and they won't do it.


So if what you do and how you play will not hurt my content, or changes in the game, and I am WELL protected from being harass by players using it. I don't understand why people care, I feel like this is just a dumb sort of gatekeeping. If someone wants to use that combo addon that makes them hit the same button for a combo. Or chat bubbles. Why does that bother some people? It is weird.

Yes, SquareEnix have morals and away of working which means they will never balance the game around add-ons like the other game does. It's why the community will never require you to use them, because at the end of the day they are not required and are only used by people to make their own experience better.

Harrasment is the problem - YoshiP said it himself, the third party tools are not the issue, it's using them to harass people. Thankfully, they are quick to ban those that do. So I don't understand the people who argue against their use. They don't affect other people and the moment that they do affect other people, they get a ban.

The vast majority of casual players are fine, but there is a small vocal minority of players who want to try and spoil it for others, because they are just pathetic. Players who think Defiance is a 10 second emnity cooldown, or pull with uncomboed mythril tempest, then go on to complain about elite players using cosmetic addons. Just need to look in the mirror and stop blaming others for their inadequacies.

[Goji1639]

Yep, I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous some of these people sound. Like the comment I've quoted below.
At what point is the community going to require you changing the colour of magic damage text to blue a pre-requisite to you entering a raid.
It's just fearmongering, and I think most of it comes from a place of envy at not being able to complete hard content and wanting to take down those who do.

Toxic casuals are and have been the biggest problem this game has. Far, far worse than any client-side addons that people like to use.

I like Yoshi P's statement on it. What is a third-party addon and where does it end? Is Excel an addon? A calculator? Discord? When he says they don't know what's on your computer and will never know, he is legitimising client side addons. That was him saying they were okay. The only thing I've seen them upset about is using mods to make lewd images of children in game (Ryne mostly).

Add ons aren't limited to cosmetics. World of Warcraft has a alot of add ons that read incoming packets and create logistic signals to basically walk you through every mechanic in the game, sometimes making you aware of mechanics before there's even any visual indication. Reading through some of this thread it sounds like ACT has plugins with similar functions. WoWs dedicated modding community could probably expand on that considerably.

I don't even really care since I don't plan to do progression in this game; and if I did I wouldn't mind using add ons anyways (I used them all the time in WoW). I'm just stating the obvious; Mods can be crazy performance enhancers and if they become pervasive enough then they'll be required for serious progression in most cases.

[TheRealQuah]

Add ons aren't limited to cosmetics. World of Warcraft has a alot of add ons that read incoming packets and create logistic signals to basically walk you through every mechanic in the game, sometimes making you aware of mechanics before there's even any visual indication. Reading through some of this thread it sounds like ACT has plugins with similar functions. WoWs dedicated modding community could probably expand on that considerably.

I don't even really care since I don't plan to do progression in this game; and if I did I wouldn't mind using add ons anyways (I used them all the time in WoW). I'm just stating the obvious; Mods can be crazy performance enhancers and if they become pervasive enough then they'll be required for serious progression in most cases.

If this was a WoW forum and that's what we were discussing I'd care about your comments.

"add ons arent just cosmetic - this other game-"

I don't care about add ons in WoW, this is FFXIV.

ACT does not have the function to make you aware of mechanics before there is any visual. It's just an advanced calculator. There was a mod out there that could do what you said, but within days, a ton of people got banned for using it, and they changed stuff in the game that completely broke it so it wouldn't work.

There are no mods that the endgame community will require people to have for progression. That will never happen. Firstly, because of console, secondly because there's nothing out there that can give you such an advantage.

[LittleImp]

ACT does not have the function to make you aware of mechanics before there is any visual. It's just an advanced calculator.

This isn't entirely true. There are various mechanics in the game where a packet is dispatched to the client ahead of the actual visual telegraph, allowing ACT/Cactbot to call the mechanic before any player can naturally see it. A good example of this was Optical Sight in A11s; The game packet that specified which pattern Cruise Chaser was using was dispatched at the start of the castbar, while the actual visual telegraph came out at the end of the castbar. This gave players an additional 2-3 seconds to position for the mechanic, which is definitely an unfair advantage.

[Packetdancer]

ACT does not have the function to make you aware of mechanics before there is any visual. It's just an advanced calculator. There was a mod out there that could do what you said, but within days, a ton of people got banned for using it, and they changed stuff in the game that completely broke it so it wouldn't work.

This isn't actually accurate; a lot of times, an MMO will have to send data to the client ahead-of-time so that the client knows which animations to start and such, and if something is parsing network activity and people learn what that particular data represents in that particular fight, they could certainly add early callouts. (That said, I've been in groups where a raid-caller can recognize a mechanic a full second or two before the caller in another group can based on just the beginning of an animation, or a difference in sound effects, so there's going to be variance in that stuff even without third-party tools in use.)

The thing you mention about an addon that they shut down/broke was actually with regards to waymarks. Specifically, the game did not previously have a way to save some marker presets (which can be very important in raids), and there was a third-party tool that would let you save markers, and then place them automatically. A lot of statics used that, simply so they had a way to have standardized markers.

And that wasn't really an unbalancing factor, nor (demonstrably) one Square-Enix cared about at the time. Sure, you saved time at the start of raid because you could click one button to put down your waymarks, instead of having to sit there for five minutes while someone carefully set them up by hand. It wasn't like it was going to wildly unbalance the raiding scene.

But then I gather some folks used the same method of setting waymarks to make triggers that would swap the markers around mid-fight, based on reading-ahead-of-time network stuff, like mentioned above. So, I guess there was a program which would change the raid markers per-mechanic without requiring anyone to call-out or think, allowing everyone to execute on stuff by just blindly following those. That, Square-Enix didn't like (rather understandably), and so they blocked it by making it impossible on the server side to change raid markers while in combat.

(And they gave us five in-game marker preset slots while doing so, since the functionality for setting them up outside of combat was useful.)

Admittedly, I feel like five isn't enough presets for folks who run a lot of content regularly, so I know there are people out there who still use the original "let me store as many raid marker presets as I want" tools -- I've raided with some of them. But you can no longer change the markers mid-fight, so it got rid of the move-them-automatically-for-the-mechanic tool that was the thing actually causing problems.