The Mentor System

[Arkaviun]

I'm new to the game and have been playing for almost 2 months now. I have played with many Mentors and I would say over 90% of the Mentors I've played with have been very toxic and rude to both me and other new players in multiple instances that I've joined. People achieve the mentor status just to walk around and have a crown next to their name as some kind of Title but they do not help new players instead I've seen them yell at other players telling them they should have watched a video before joining the instance, to play an easier job if they can't understand how to play it, not teaching mechanics or helping new players. Many and I mean MANY of the mentors have left the instance after the second or so wipe, I've made a few videos on it.

There should be some kind of way for Mentors to lose their Mentor status for being rude, Toxic, refusing to help new players, Giving wrong advice for mechanics, Leaving the instance and such. Something that would be the opposite of commendations. There are waaaayyy to many Mentors but only a few of them actually take their Mentor status with pride and help others. I wanted to become a Mentor, I was looking forward to it but all these Mentors are giving it a bad reputation.

Please consider doing some kind of change. Increasing the things you have to do to obtain the Mentor status just makes the crown look like a shiny Title to many, and many of them do not actually wish to be actual Mentors. Mentors have been the ONLY toxic players I have come across in my entire 2 months of playing.

[Wavaryen]

Mentors are the running joke of the community, many of them don't know what they are doing...and easily get riled up. Notice I said many not all.


I rather have an unskilled mentor, than a rude one myself. Also increasing the things needed I don't think will work because the people who become one no life the heck out of the game to the point where any grind needed they will do, and it seems these types of people end up being jerks.


But from what I am told, reporting mentors for being toxic they get in trouble much quicker than us.

[ZedxKayn]

Depends the type of content you're talking about. Casual stuff? Sure they got no business talking like that.
Extreme and harder stuff, where the things you mentioned tend to happen the most? They'd be correct, don't come into what is/once was high-end content unprepared.

[Jojoya]

There should be some kind of way for Mentors to lose their Mentor status for being rude, Toxic

There is. It's called open a Support Desk ticket and report the mentor's behavior.

SE will investigate and if they agree the player's behavior was inappropriate, they will take action on the account. If a history of repeat inappropriate behavior ends up documented, they will strip the player of their mentor status and they will not be able to regain it.

refusing to help new players,

Mentors are not required to help new players on demand. It's a voluntary participation program. They're still normal human beings with their own goals and interests, and they're not required to devote all their time to new player issues.

[Juun]

Mentors are not required to help new players on demand. It's a voluntary participation program. They're still normal human beings with their own goals and interests, and they're not required to devote all their time to new player issues.

Yes, but they can also choose to ignore the chat. When I used to be in the Novice Chat you get the toxic mentor replies all the time, like OPs examples. If you have nothing nice to say, just dont say anything at all.

[Eien713]

I've been playing the game for over 6 years, and the number of good mentors I've met exceeds the number of bad ones. Anyway, I'll address the different points you mentioned in your post.

- Telling other players they should have watched a video before joining the instance: Extremely valid in challenging content. I've never ever seen a mentor say this in normal content. I'm 100% with ZedxKayn. Don't go into challenging content blind in DF. That's a recipe for disaster. Mentors see this all the time, which is why they advise people to go to PF instead or to look up a guide. It's not a mentor's job to write walls of text to explain a fight when a video would be far better at doing the job. Unless your aim is to discover and learn the fight (in which case you should have the ability to actually figure out mechanics and do them correctly relatively fast), having the fight explained to you is no different from doing your homework beforehand by looking up a guide except that in the second case, you at least don't inconvenience another person by making them type walls upon walls of text (later fights get very complicated) and you also don't waste the instance timer. And this way, the mentors can help the party iron out the parts they're struggling with.

- To play an easier job if they can't understand how to play it: Again, valid advice. A mentor isn't expected to teach you your job (maybe they don't play the job and thus can't even help you with that). They might give you tips, though. In this case, starting with an easier job isn't a bad thing. It's not like they necessarily meant the person was too stupid to play the job, just that an easier start would be more beneficial and then when the person is more experienced, they can pick up a more difficult job. The other alternative would've been to read a guide about the job they're having trouble with.

- Not teaching mechanics or helping new players: Similar to point 1. In normal content, I'm yet to see a mentor not explain mechanics when people are struggling. I also think that mentors should only explain mechanics in normal content when people ask them to. Some people wanna discover the fights for themselves. Also, some mentors/players opt for not giving advice because of the way people usually respond to it (they get defensive).

- Many and I mean MANY of the mentors have left the instance after the second or so wipe: Honestly, I can understand this in normal content. If people can't even do the easy content, you'll most likely waste your time and/or get frustrated, especially if the mechanics have already been explained. People focus on mentors leaving, but even normal players leave instances when they deem it a waste of their time or they don't wanna put up with certain things. In challenging content, after a mentor explains stuff and notices people not following instructions after n tries, it's safe to assume it'll be a waste of time and they should be free to leave. However, mentors shouldn't leave the instant they see they got tagged in content they don't want.

The fact that the mentor system is the way it is is not just because of mentors. The community as a whole contributed to the bad state of the system. They kept meming about it and spreading the negativity when they most likely don't really know what they're talking about. To understand the struggles of mentors, you'll have to become one and walk a mile in their shoes. A lot of people have no idea of the horrors that take place in Mentor Roulette. Besides, some people actually treat mentors badly just because they're mentors and even when the mentors are just trying to help (true story).

[Vinupra-Rosa]

When I still had my sub running (I decided to let it lapse because I'm pissed that someone who's been harassing me indirectly through defamation hasn't gotten any punishment at all despite doing that stuff for years to many different people) I would try to offer help on NN as a mentor, though as of late I've been doing it via a sprout alt because i ran out of things to do on my main (mentor) character.

Generally, and while the specific atmosphere differs from server to server and by time of day, NN is a lovely mess due to its nature as an open forum. I can deal with it most of the time, but sometimes I need to respond in /tells for one reason or another. There's a lot of people in there, from people who want to help but don't really know that much, to people who just want people to give them attention, to people who deliberately stir the pot, to people who mean well but have issues with phrasing/etc, to people who feel entitled to people's time and attention, to people who like listening to other people, to people who are dense as hell, to people who understand things fast, to people who get vendettas and act on them in public, to people who like helping but get drowned out easily / are dainty.

I'm definitly of the 'likes to help, but is unassuming/dainty' group, hence my relying on /tells sometimes--- i get drowned out otherwise.

My worst experiences were with three kinds of people: First, sprouts who felt like they are entitled to us giving them their undivided attention -- i would read their question and try to remember the answer, but then they'd start complaining and insulting because 'nobody responded' and i'd just delete my response because that is SUCH a big turn-off. Second, returners who think they know better than everyone else, can't accept corrections/new information, and keep parroting years-old advice like 'just shirk the healer and cover them to deal with tankbusters'. Third, people -returners, sprouts, and mentors all- who treat the channel as a joke and use the "NN bad" meme as an excuse to troll.

Also in general, you can tell early on which sprouts would become problematic mentors-- many of the people i have issues with I had pegged as being problematic (and had been causing problems) as a sprout... them becoming a mentor only made it worse, because now they have kick powers. So it's the person, not the crown.

Also on 'most' mentors being 'rude', generally that means either most helpful mentors you met just have their crowns off in the overworld (a common practice because of the 'mentor bad' meme), or you are being rude to them first or otherwise took what they thought was neutral as being negative. Usually it's more complex than that though.

Other people have already addressed the points regarding 'watch videos!' &c (see: Eien713's response), so go reaed their replies on that matter. A quick TL;DR is that if you're doing hard content (extreme/savage) you should have read guides not just on the fight but on your job and role as well. For casual content (dungeons) it's fine.

There's only so much mentors can teach, and it's beyond us to push you from 'doesn't know anything about their job' to 'decent and workable' in one lockout... and honestly, very few people have the patience for that. The few people that do are a treasure.

[Juun]

- Telling other players they should have watched a video before joining the instance: Extremely valid in challenging content. I've never ever seen a mentor say this in normal content.

- To play an easier job if they can't understand how to play it: Again, valid advice. A mentor isn't expected to teach you your job (maybe they don't play the job and thus can't even help you with that).

- Not teaching mechanics or helping new players: Similar to point 1. In normal content, I'm yet to see a mentor not explain mechanics when people are struggling. I also think that mentors should only explain mechanics in normal content when people ask them to.

You say this doesnt happen in normal content but thats the entire point where the frustration comes from because it happens way to often in normal content. Besides watching a video isnt valid advice for everyone. I cant for the love of it sit through a 20min video trying to figure out boss mechanics. I just need to read a simple run down of its attacks to watch out for and thats it. Not 20min of a YT'er explaining an entire routine.

Watch sides, hide behind pillar, have the open part of circle face the boss. (See? It took me 1 sentence not a 20min video).

Saying to play an easier job is also yet again terrible advice. A person should play a class they enjoy and not play a different class because it inconveniences you because a boss doesnt melt as fast as you like.

Lastely Ive seen a mentor tank pull an entire dungeon then die, complain its one of these runs again and leaves. This happened in my friends group that was full of sprouts and everyone was there first time being confused as heck what happened as no one told them what he was planning on doing. It might be obvious for you knowing it was a Castrum, but it wasnt for these sprouts.

[Eien713]

You say this doesnt happen in normal content but thats the entire point where the frustration comes from because it happens way to often in normal content. Besides watching a video isnt valid advice for everyone. I cant for the love of it sit through a 20min video trying to figure out boss mechanics. I just need to read a simple run down of its attacks to watch out for and thats it. Not 20min of a YT'er explaining an entire routine.

Watch sides, hide behind pillar, have the open part of circle face the boss. (See? It took me 1 sentence not a 20min video).

Written guides exist too. And you can skip parts and/or speed up the video if you want too. Besides, tanks, healers, and DPS all have different mechanics, so a mentor will theoretically have to explain everything, and it's not like extreme fights are as simple as "hide behind pillar, have the open part of circle face the boss" (what you mentioned is from a 24-man raid, which is normal content and thus easy). Keep in mind that the time spent explaining mechanics in Ex fights is deducted from the time spent actually doing the fight (the party only has 1 hour to clear the fight).

Saying to play an easier job is also yet again terrible advice. A person should play a class they enjoy and not play a different class because it inconveniences you because a boss doesnt melt as fast as you like.

If they enjoy the class and they voice this, then the mentor will most likely advise them to read a guide. But not playing a class at a decent level and thus having an abysmal performance is also not fair to the other party members.

Lastely Ive seen a mentor tank pull an entire dungeon then die, complain its one of these runs again and leaves. This happened in my friends group that was full of sprouts and everyone was there first time being confused as heck what happened as no one told them what he was planning on doing. It might be obvious for you knowing it was a Castrum, but it wasnt for these sprouts.

In this case, I agree that the mentor was at fault. Even if the wipe was because the healer couldn't keep up (so technically it wasn't because of poor use of CDs on the tank's part), this still shouldn't warrant responding the way this tank did.

[KageTokage]

The system really does need some tweaking.

For starters, the Novice Network either needs more mentor slots, or to somehow discourage people from just loitering in there and taking up space when they have no actual interest in helping anybody.