Recognizing parasistic game design decision

[Nothv13]

The difference is that it's all optional with no sign of that changing. You can just do savage with a crafted weapon and loot a savage weapon and feel accomplished.

Exactly. All these things are optional and don't just vanish. You can still do PoD, HoH, Eureka, etc and your progress in them never goes away unless you do something (like pulling your weapons out of HoH or PoD). Instead these act as sources of glamour or optional way to level a new job. They are no where near what the borrowed power systems are in WoW.

[Puremallace]

yes but none of the things you mentioned in final fantasy even implies character progression, none of it actually ever offered any power, therefore its also not "borrowed power". if palace of the dead was "borrowed power" you may aswell call the gold saucer borrowed power. for your comparison to make sense palace of the dead would need to actually make my character stronger, thereby effectively forcing me to do it if i want to be at the top during the given expansion and than actually take these boons away from me afterwards.

ok then. When is the last time they added new features to Palace of the dead. It can be parasitic design but also not be abusive because it is optional. Do you think they are ever going to add new content to Eureka? Bodzja?

Palace of the dead is not a core or supporting design feature of Final Fantasy 14. It falls under optional content but without a doubt it has been abandoned with no hope of any changes.

[Nothv13]

ok then. When is the last time they added new features to Palace of the dead. It can be parasitic design but also not be abusive because it is optional. Do you think they are ever going to add new content to Eureka? Bodzja?

No because they are not meant to be ongoing. They are meant as side activities. Borrowed power systems as seen in WoW are not side activities but instead core to your progression.

[Wavaryen]

ok then. When is the last time they added new features to Palace of the dead. It can be parasitic design but also not be abusive because it is optional. Do you think they are ever going to add new content to Eureka? Bodzja?

Palace of the dead is not a core or supporting design feature of Final Fantasy 14. It falls under optional content but without a doubt it has been abandoned with no hope of any changes.

Because it does not need changing? It is design for players who enjoy it. A title that you can get out of it, if you pick to master it. And can be used as a leveling tool. Also some people use it to make some gil.


Like what more do you want in a game? It is content, that has value.

[CaptainFishSticks]

Obviously if you get Bozja you can compare it to a lot of what WoW has been doing in its recent expansions, with the Lost Actions, valor, succor and fortitude grinds, relic grinds and DR savage.

The difference is that it's all optional with no sign of that changing. You can just do savage with a crafted weapon and loot a savage weapon and feel accomplished.

When I'm asked by former WoW players what the biggest differences are in this game I tell them it's that all these grinds are optional and you do it for mounts, glamour or even fun. If you're trying to say this is a bad thing then I disagree because it's what is drawing people to this game.

Exactly this. It is intentional design to allow you to either choose if whether or not you want to grind for the relics, or to just simply complete and earn rewards from Savage content.

Or you can just ignore all of this and simply play the game how you want to. You're not locked out of anything nor are you left at a severe disadvantage compared to other players.

[Rayo]

ok then. When is the last time they added new features to Palace of the dead. It can be parasitic design but also not be abusive because it is optional. Do you think they are ever going to add new content to Eureka? Bodzja?

Palace of the dead is not a core or supporting design feature of Final Fantasy 14. It falls under optional content but without a doubt it has been abandoned with no hope of any changes.

If I recall, returning to Palace of the Dead is an optional route for the resistance weapon grind. On top of that Palace of the Dead acts as the ending point of one of a fan favorite side story as well as being a player challenge dungeon if people want to reach the final floor and get some cosmetic awards (a title and piece of housing furniture to prove you climbed to the top).

[Bright-Flower]

I don't think FFXIV has a 'borrowed power' problem the way WoW does.

Yes, we have things like Eureka and Bozja where you have separate leveling systems. But these are always side content. WoW borrowed power applied to the entire game. Every bit of content, from outdoor questing and leveling to dungeons to end game raids and mythic +.

If say, the Bozja leveling and lost actions applied outside of Bozja specific content I would agree there's an issue. But as is, I think it's fine, and I see no reason to think SE is going to suddenly cross that line. They seem to realize that temporary expansion specific power/leveling systems should remain limited to them. And jobs never feel like they need these lost actions and smilar things to feel complete. They are additions to complete jobs for side content, unlike WoW where they're needed for everything outside of like, pet battles.

[Puremallace]

Because it does not need changing? It is design for players who enjoy it. A title that you can get out of it, if you pick to master it. And can be used as a leveling tool. Also some people use it to make some gil.


Like what more do you want in a game? It is content, that has value.

There is nothing stopping the FF14 devs from having floors 1-200 be lvl 60 with leader boards....Floors 201 to 400 be lvl 70 content and so on. It could very easily be continuous content that would be a mammoth task to overcome but it would be considered CORE content.

Each of the 200 floors could be designed completely differently to fit that expansions theme. You have to remember deep dungeon was completely abandoned in Shadowbringers and we have only gotten vague promises for Endwalker.

[Nothv13]

There is nothing stopping the FF14 devs from having floors 1-200 be lvl 60 with leader boards....Floors 201 to 400 be lvl 70 content and so on. It could very easily be continuous content that would be a mammoth task to overcome but it would be considered CORE content.

Each of the 200 floors could be designed completely differently to fit that expansions theme. You have to remember deep dungeon was completely abandoned in Shadowbringers and we have only gotten vague promises for Endwalker.

HoH is the level 70 deep dungeon. Again, these things are not meant to be ongoing, they are self contained side stories, thus zero reason to add on to them. If they are going to add another Deep Dungeon, it will not be tied to either of the previous ones and will not be core to the progression of your character.

[Wavaryen]

There is nothing stopping the FF14 devs from having floors 1-200 be lvl 60 with leader boards....Floors 201 to 400 be lvl 70 content and so on. It could very easily be continuous content that would be a mammoth task to overcome but it would be considered CORE content.

Each of the 200 floors could be designed completely differently to fit that expansions theme. You have to remember deep dungeon was completely abandoned in Shadowbringers and we have only gotten vague promises for Endwalker.

I agree, I would like another Deep Dungeon, and yes some content has been abandoned. Aka our ranks and such. I do hope it expands, but right now they still have value. That is more than wow borrow power system.