Recognizing parasistic game design decision

[Akiudo]

Effectively the best example is borrowed power systems that are put into an expansion that contribute nothing and can quickly be retired and noone would notice.

Some prime examples for FF14 are Diadem, Deep Dungeons and Blue Mage. Now Square Enix has walked a fine line here of making all of these things optional but it is worth it to be educated about this topic.

i fail to see what any of those have to do with "borrowed power" systems, and if anything the problem with borrowed power systems is that they contribute something and can't be removed without people noticing. losing your artifact weapon at the end of legion felt like shit, going through the same every single expansion feels like shit because it kills the feeling of getting stronger and actually gaining power. that aside "making it optional" is also not a fine line but very clear cut and simple in the cases you mentioned.

[Puremallace]

i fail to see what any of those have to do with "borrowed power" systems, and if anything the problem with borrowed power systems is that they contribute something and can't be removed without people noticing. losing your artifact weapon at the end of legion felt like shit, going through the same every single expansion feels like shit because it kills the feeling of getting stronger and actually gaining power. that aside "making it optional" is also not a fine line but very clear cut and simple in the cases you mentioned.

So borrowed power systems you put large amount of time into and they apply nowhere else in the game except in the specific content designed for it that is never added to ever again and is retired. Like Blizzard will never add more levels to the heart of Azeroth or more Azerite gear.

They will never add more Class Hall quest to expand your legion Artifact. It is a not a core system system or support but a parasitic mechanic solely designed to leech time and investment for no actual character progression.

[Akiudo]

So borrowed power systems you put large amount of time into and they apply nowhere else in the game except in the specific content designed for it that is never added to ever again and is retired. Like Blizzard will never add more levels to the heart of Azeroth or more Azerite gear.

They will never add more Class Hall quest to expand your legion Artifact. It is a not a core system system or support but a parasitic mechanic solely designed to leech time and investment for no actual character progression.

yes but none of the things you mentioned in final fantasy even implies character progression, none of it actually ever offered any power, therefore its also not "borrowed power". if palace of the dead was "borrowed power" you may aswell call the gold saucer borrowed power. for your comparison to make sense palace of the dead would need to actually make my character stronger, thereby effectively forcing me to do it if i want to be at the top during the given expansion and than actually take these boons away from me afterwards.

[Puremallace]

yes but none of the things you mentioned in final fantasy even implies character progression, none of it actually ever offered any power, therefore its also not "borrowed power". if palace of the dead was "borrowed power" you may aswell call the gold saucer borrowed power. for your comparison to make sense palace of the dead would need to actually make my character stronger, thereby effectively forcing me to do it if i want to be at the top during the given expansion and than actually take these boons away from me afterwards.

ok then. When is the last time they added new features to Palace of the dead. It can be parasitic design but also not be abusive because it is optional. Do you think they are ever going to add new content to Eureka? Bodzja?

Palace of the dead is not a core or supporting design feature of Final Fantasy 14. It falls under optional content but without a doubt it has been abandoned with no hope of any changes.

[Nothv13]

ok then. When is the last time they added new features to Palace of the dead. It can be parasitic design but also not be abusive because it is optional. Do you think they are ever going to add new content to Eureka? Bodzja?

No because they are not meant to be ongoing. They are meant as side activities. Borrowed power systems as seen in WoW are not side activities but instead core to your progression.

[Wavaryen]

ok then. When is the last time they added new features to Palace of the dead. It can be parasitic design but also not be abusive because it is optional. Do you think they are ever going to add new content to Eureka? Bodzja?

Palace of the dead is not a core or supporting design feature of Final Fantasy 14. It falls under optional content but without a doubt it has been abandoned with no hope of any changes.

Because it does not need changing? It is design for players who enjoy it. A title that you can get out of it, if you pick to master it. And can be used as a leveling tool. Also some people use it to make some gil.


Like what more do you want in a game? It is content, that has value.

[Puremallace]

Because it does not need changing? It is design for players who enjoy it. A title that you can get out of it, if you pick to master it. And can be used as a leveling tool. Also some people use it to make some gil.


Like what more do you want in a game? It is content, that has value.

There is nothing stopping the FF14 devs from having floors 1-200 be lvl 60 with leader boards....Floors 201 to 400 be lvl 70 content and so on. It could very easily be continuous content that would be a mammoth task to overcome but it would be considered CORE content.

Each of the 200 floors could be designed completely differently to fit that expansions theme. You have to remember deep dungeon was completely abandoned in Shadowbringers and we have only gotten vague promises for Endwalker.

[Nothv13]

There is nothing stopping the FF14 devs from having floors 1-200 be lvl 60 with leader boards....Floors 201 to 400 be lvl 70 content and so on. It could very easily be continuous content that would be a mammoth task to overcome but it would be considered CORE content.

Each of the 200 floors could be designed completely differently to fit that expansions theme. You have to remember deep dungeon was completely abandoned in Shadowbringers and we have only gotten vague promises for Endwalker.

HoH is the level 70 deep dungeon. Again, these things are not meant to be ongoing, they are self contained side stories, thus zero reason to add on to them. If they are going to add another Deep Dungeon, it will not be tied to either of the previous ones and will not be core to the progression of your character.

[Wavaryen]

There is nothing stopping the FF14 devs from having floors 1-200 be lvl 60 with leader boards....Floors 201 to 400 be lvl 70 content and so on. It could very easily be continuous content that would be a mammoth task to overcome but it would be considered CORE content.

Each of the 200 floors could be designed completely differently to fit that expansions theme. You have to remember deep dungeon was completely abandoned in Shadowbringers and we have only gotten vague promises for Endwalker.

I agree, I would like another Deep Dungeon, and yes some content has been abandoned. Aka our ranks and such. I do hope it expands, but right now they still have value. That is more than wow borrow power system.

[Rayo]

ok then. When is the last time they added new features to Palace of the dead. It can be parasitic design but also not be abusive because it is optional. Do you think they are ever going to add new content to Eureka? Bodzja?

Palace of the dead is not a core or supporting design feature of Final Fantasy 14. It falls under optional content but without a doubt it has been abandoned with no hope of any changes.

If I recall, returning to Palace of the Dead is an optional route for the resistance weapon grind. On top of that Palace of the Dead acts as the ending point of one of a fan favorite side story as well as being a player challenge dungeon if people want to reach the final floor and get some cosmetic awards (a title and piece of housing furniture to prove you climbed to the top).