TheLazyPeon "gives FFXIV another try"

[TeraRamis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu9xm8dUna8

To be clear, I do not typically follow streamers in general, or TLP, although I was aware of his existence, and had previously viewed a few of his videos over the years. I know enough to say that the guy is a 'mid to upper level' or recognized voice in the MMORPG sphere, who plays a lot of the games in the genre (a lot of games - like stuff you or I would likely never try because it just looks like garbage out of the gate).

The reason I'm posting this isn't because I'm a member of his following, but rather because of the way he approached (this go), and has previously approached FFXIV, and to wonder if it's at all indicative of how a lot of people who don't stick with the game view it.

To be frank, I'm a person who does a fair amount of story-skipping myself - I pay a decent amount of attention to the MSQ as I pass through it the first time, but side-quests and, in particular, the intra-expansion quest chains are basically of no interest to me (I feel like the game talks too much; YMMV, but I'm not appreciative of the 'stand around and chat' exposition that FFXIV has favored as its main delivery of narrative over the years). However, it seems that there are people out there who go far beyond this, and just don't read the quests... at all - like any of them. And it would appear that TLP was one of them, at least until this second try at the game.

I know that ARR's storyline was only just recently streamlined, and that has probably helped matters a lot, but I have to wonder if the game could really benefit from a 10-20 minute action-oriented 'hook' piece of content at the start... rather than having a soothing chat with Hydaelyn and then just going for a chocobo cart ride. If there was a way to... get players more invested in the plots right from the get-go, I think it might make them more apt to sit through the rather talky ARR cutscenes that followed. TLP went into this second effort pledging to himself - forcing himself - to actually read and get involved. But if the game began with a more abrupt jolt, it could go a long way to enticing people who don't have that kind of commitment to get involved immediately.

Just food for thought.

[EnigmaticDodo]

TheLazyPeon tries to hop back on the bandwagon.

[Vahlnir]

TheLazyPeon tries to hop back on the bandwagon.

Yep. That's basically what he's known for. If it's what all the "cool kids" are doing he will do that. If it's what all the cool kids are hating then he will hate it. It's nothing unusual though. The world is full of opportunists.

[CKNovel]

Yep. That's basically what he's known for. If it's what all the "cool kids" are doing he will do that. If it's what all the cool kids are hating then he will hate it. It's nothing unusual though. The world is full of opportunists.

Basically what many tried to do, including Asmongold.
LazyPeon was probably scared that he would be called out after Asmongold stream through ARR, best solution was to give the game another try while hoping on the bandwagon as well.
Every "XIV haters" starts to look ridiculous because of their bias that is now very obvious. Never forget fountain guy.

Blizzard is also in big troubles and gathering hate. There's very few things people would gather around for the purpose of love.
But you can be sure when it comes to hating something, you can gather millions. Remember how "Baby" from Justin Bieber on youtube got a lot of its dislikes removed so Youtube Rewind 2018 could be the most downvoted video?
Or the most downvoted comment on reddit that is an EA comment about SW:Battlefront 2?

And users here don't understand why there forums don't have downvote buttons.

[TeraRamis]

TheLazyPeon tries to hop back on the bandwagon.

Like I said, I don't have anything personally invested either way when it comes to the guy. I was rather just raising a point: for people who don't have the nostalgia kick working for them - who haven't played (or devoured) previous Final Fantasy games - the slow start to FFXIV may not be exactly what is called for to drive investment. FFXIV should be concerned with appealing to more players than just those who have a background with the franchise, and since the story is such a big part of the draw here, I think a strong case could be made that it doesn't start with enough of a bang to turn ambivalent heads.

Just as a thought, really disastrous events have been shown to awaken the Echo in other NPCs - being shocked, startled, attacked, imperiled, etc. Why couldn't the game open with some kind of random such happening? It wouldn't have to have any bearing on the later story - just some little side-affair (being attacked by bandits, or a rogue dragon, or something) that launches us into Hydaelyn's service.

[Cebo]

The biggest problem for most new players, including TheLazyPeon in his past attempt, is the 2.0 - 2.5 ARR slog. Past WoW friends I tried to introduce to the game couldn't get past how boring that was, and even when they get to Heavensward, they're already burnt out from all the cutscenes/dialogue. The regular ARR main story, while dull, goes by quickly, and your character is progressing throughout in levels, abilities, etc. Even WoW veterans can grind through it. But the 80 quests that are required post-ARR is the biggest roadblock, since there is zero progression, and you're literally just teleporting from location to location to get through dialogue/cutscenes. SE honestly did not trim enough fat here.

Those who argue it lays the foundation and is necessary for world-building really oversell it. Things like Good King Moogle Mog, Leviathan/Ramuh, the Ivy's subterfuge etc. could all have been on the chopping block (ie. moved to sidequests), without much loss to the primary narrative. They could easily just trim it down to the Monetarists subplot, the Doma refugees/Yugiri's arrival and Alphi establishing the Crystal Braves, and move right on to Lady Iceheart and Moenbryda's arrival. Hell, even the Monetarists, while critical for 2.55's conclusion, is basically a footnote for the rest of the game, so even that's scrapped in later expansions. Unlike later expansions where the post-HW, post-SB, and post-ShB quests continue the narrative from x.0 - x.3, and have their big moments...ARR's 2.0 - 2.3 is the definition of filler content.

[RyuDragnier]

Those who argue it lays the foundation and is necessary for world-building really oversell it. Things like Good King Moogle Mog, Leviathan/Ramuh, the Ivy's subterfuge etc. could all have been on the chopping block (ie. moved to sidequests), without much loss to the primary narrative. They could easily just trim it down to the Monetarists subplot, the Doma refugees/Yugiri's arrival and Alphi establishing the Crystal Braves, and move right on to Lady Iceheart and Moenbryda's arrival. Hell, even the Monetarists, while critical for 2.55's conclusion, is basically a footnote for the rest of the game, so even that's scrapped in later expansions. Unlike later expansions where the post-HW, post-SB, and post-ShB quests continue the narrative from x.0 - x.3, and have their big moments...ARR's 2.0 - 2.3 is the definition of filler content.

Incorrect. Going to point this out in a block to avoid spoilers for others, because this is spoilers for the entirety of the game.

Good King Mog hinted at how Primal summoning works, that it makes what you BELIEVE come to life, not the actual individual, which we find out in HW. Leviathan showed that the Echo allows body hopping, hinting strongly at how connected it is to the Ascians and what somebody could possibly do with it. Ramuh hinted that things are not as black and white as we think, and that light and dark are two sides of the same coin. Ivy's subterfuge was a warning not to trust those close to us so easily, something that hit us hard with the betrayal by the Crystal Braves, and much later with Misija's betrayal in Save the Queen.

Everything is foreshadowing future events and knowledge, so it is all important to the plot in the grand scheme of things.

[Fyrebrand]

But where are the eels?

Mother Miounne baked them all into pies.

Everything is foreshadowing future events and knowledge, so it is all important to the plot in the grand scheme of things.

Excellent comment! I'd thought to point out that bit about the Leviathan chapter, but forgot to. Removing content from main-line MSQ and demoting it to "side-quests" means it's no longer established canon. Therefore, they can't really reference concepts in those chapters for future story beats, because they don't know if the player has done it or not. Plus, the quests for those primal battles aren't terribly long in the grand scheme of things, and if players feel like there's already too much "blah blah" without any action, removing combat encounters doesn't seem like a good remedy.

As somebody who's come and gone from the game multiple times over the years since ARR came out, and actually restarted the game from scratch a few times, I totally get the "slog" factor. I felt it a bit this time around at parts. But I remember clearly, the first time I played through post-vanilla Level 50 content, I thought it was incredible! It's so much better and more polished than the ARR leveling quests, there's tons more voiced dialogue, you're wondering where the story is going to go after you've defeated the Garlean occupation efforts. Every little plot thread feels important, like it could be a launchpad for future adventures.

Unpopular opinion, but I actually feel like all the Level 50 dungeons they give you should have been mandatory MSQ content, because they are actually really well made, and fun to do at least once. Also, the Crystal Tower absolutely blew my mind the first time through! To skip that would be a real shame, as it's quite a spectacle.

[TaleraRistain]

Everything is foreshadowing future events and knowledge, so it is all important to the plot in the grand scheme of things.

Exactly. There are people who would have stuck a certain event involving Alisaie into "sidequest" territory in the past, and now we find out how absolutely crucial to the plot it's become.

To be fair, there's a lot of padding in the expansions as well, even in our beloved Shadowbringers (eg. trolley/golem subplot in Amh Araeng).

How is that padding? It directly relates to how you get to an MSQ dungeon.

[AnotherPerson]

Incorrect. Going to point this out in a block to avoid spoilers for others, because this is spoilers for the entirety of the game.

Good King Mog hinted at how Primal summoning works, that it makes what you BELIEVE come to life, not the actual individual, which we find out in HW. Leviathan showed that the Echo allows body hopping, hinting strongly at how connected it is to the Ascians and what somebody could possibly do with it. Ramuh hinted that things are not as black and white as we think, and that light and dark are two sides of the same coin. Ivy's subterfuge was a warning not to trust those close to us so easily, something that hit us hard with the betrayal by the Crystal Braves, and much later with Misija's betrayal in Save the Queen.

Everything is foreshadowing future events and knowledge, so it is all important to the plot in the grand scheme of things.

I agree with ya heavily. ARR does a lot of buildup in subtle nuances if you can pick them up that becomes very integral to the storytelling in the long run.

Running through the ARR MSQ again for the third time, there's a lot of MSQ they did trim out that was comedic / entertaining and for atmosphere buildup - if only to simplify the experience and make it less of a 'slog'. There's a lot taken away that did make the experience a lot smoother, but it's also true that some of these quests served as a way to immerse yourself into the adventure, which made it feel less of a grind if you're actually just playing the story for the first time to enjoy the journey.

The problem is that people are told about the HYPE that is Heavensward, and they're so focused on Heavensward that they are no longer immersing themselves into the story since they just want to "skip" this part and go to Heavensward, the 'good' part.

A lot of people have to remember that ARR post patches (2.1 to 2.55) was not made in a day. To go through the story as if you are supposed to rush the quests quickly will only burn you out faster than ever since they're supposed to be done over a significantly longer period of time.