*SPOILERS* Terrified for the remaining Scions!

[Lauront]

I do hate to keep going on about this—I'd much rather talk about things I like. Like existential horror, dragons, primals, voidsent, and basically everything except G'raha. But since it was asked...

I don't like that the Exarch's death was written to overshadow Elidibus's. I don't like that his death was also played up as such a bittersweet tragedy when it was plainly obvious they weren't really going to kill him. And I really don't like that they played up the all but romantic angle with him, to the point where he was willing to abandon his own granddaughter just to go gallivanting around the Source with us—that was even before Elidibus took the choice out of his hands. But most of all, I don't like how little the original G'raha Tia's existence was taken into account in the process. To me, it feels less like a fusion between their two souls and more like the Exarch has erased his past self and taken over his body.

I don't necessarily want him to die—and I doubt I'd be satisfied if he did because I dislike him as much as I do. I would much rather have had the original G'raha, awakened from the tower with no memory of the events on the First and in the future, than whatever he currently is. But since that's never happening, I'd settle for him getting the Gaius treatment. Put him into some side content that ends with him settling into his new lot in life, far away from the rest of the story. And he if does have to remain relevant until then, don't make the story revolve around him as much as Shadowbringers did. Let him be just another Scion, no more important or special than the rest.

Well put, and agreed.

Yep. We never lose - not, at least, on a strategic level. Final Fantasy used to take risks - in FFVI, we were defeated; we killed Kefka, but it was heavily implied that millions perished, and the world was irrevocably altered. We won, but we lost... and our victory couldn't reverse what had occured on our watch: burned cities, continents sundered, and magic (and a race of ancient magical beings) snuffed out. We failed, and others paid. It made the payoff at the end as much about revenge as rejoicing - it was a hollow victory, and because of that, it felt real.

I'm still waiting for FFXIV to hand us a situation like that - where the WoL comes up short, and there is no easy recovery. Something tells me that I'll be left disappointed. This story is just so nonchalant when it comes to perils and penalties. We simply do not experience anything more significant than minor setbacks.

It's telling that they couldn't even allow that for the alternate timeline, IMO. If any antagonist thus far should've been able to inflict such a fate, it should have been either of Emet-Selch or Elidibus. Now they didn't decide to go that route with the former, because he had an emotional connection to the protagonist's ancient persona, so there was ample potential to utilise the latter and his connection to Zodiark for such a thing.

It's honestly difficult to take the empire or the ascians seriously anymore. All they are doing is getting defeated by the WoL/Scions/Eorzia. It's ridiculous how all city states still have the same leaders, none of them ever being in real danger, while the Garleans lost one legatus after another and their emperor. No even to mention that we killed all three unsundered Ascians while the Scions have huge plot armor.
I don't have much hope anything will change in Endwalker. Anything other than a glorious victory against Zenos and Zodiark with minimal loses for the WoL and his team of goody good guys would surprise me.

It's become stale and predictable. Which I hope 6.0 won't be, but I don't have particularly high hopes in that regard.

[Theodric]

It's become stale and predictable. Which I hope 6.0 won't be, but I don't have particularly high hopes in that regard.

Likewise.

The writers would do well to remember that there is no small amount of Ascian and Garlean fans out there who have been waiting years for a satisfying conclusion to one or both story arcs. I certainly wouldn't bother following this game's story based on the Scions or City State leaders alone. With the exception of Hien, I find them to be rather bland and disposable.

One also has to wonder why, in a fantasy setting, so many characters end up being forced to adhere to modern day real world takes on morality instead of something with a bit more depth and grit. I find myself rolling my eyes every time a 'problem' arises for the protagonists - especially since the game wastes a lot of time showing them sitting around a table fretting over the latest issue only to just overcome it anyway by throwing the Warrior of Light at it.

Worse yet, the characters who do not have the plot convenience of the Warrior of Light to lean upon are then forced to rely on more questionable methods as a consequence and are then dragged through the coals for daring to not just roll over and die.

It makes for a very childish story and I do hope that 6.0 proves to be bolder. With any luck, the recent influx of WoW players who are used to consequences will balance out the voices calling for nothing bad to ever happen to any of the supposed 'good guys' ever.

[TheMightyMollusk]

WoW players who are used to consequences

This is a joke, right?

[Kolsykol]

WoW players who are used to consequences

Eh... Elaborate?

[Rinhi]

Why do so many people dislike graha and want him to die O.o?

because he had served his "purpose" and was perfectly "happy", with being locked away in the crystal tower forever knowing that he helped avert the calamity he experienced even at the cost of living a normal life, see: him more than willing to kill himself to stop the light and send us back
his only wish was for us to carry his crystal with us on our adventures so that we'd always have him close, but of course we had to fuse his soul with source graha's

[DPZ2]

because he had served his "purpose" and was perfectly "happy", with being locked away in the crystal tower forever knowing that he helped avert the calamity he experienced even at the cost of living a normal life, see: him more than willing to kill himself to stop the light and send us back
his only wish was for us to carry his crystal with us on our adventures so that we'd always have him close, but of course we had to fuse his soul with source graha's

And that explains why you wish him to die?

His death only made sense to him before the end of the 5.0 main story. A lot came between that time and the end of the main story line in 5.3. Enough for players to realize that

1. He knew that the Tower could eventually be breached
2. He knew that he could not accompany us back to the source in his current body.
3. He knew that his blood-infused crystal would be sufficient to allow us to pass through those sealed doors.

Would he have been "happy" to die? I suspect that even at the end of 5.3, he knew darn well what he was doing. And we, as Warrior of Light, also knew.

Plus, the relationship dynamic serves as inspiration for fan fiction in soooooo many ways.

You may be annoyed at his character, but he doesn't deserve to die in story just because of that annoyance.

[Rokke]

Why do so many people dislike graha and want him to die O.o?

Because they invented a completely new personality to sell us a new mandatory bff immediately after a heroic and touching death scene. In the CT quests/SHB storyline he was eager to work with us and looked up to us but he didn't trip over his feet wiggle ears OwO UwU w-w-wol kun~ around us. I liked the exarch, I liked 2.x graha. I do not like what I've been saddled with.

[StriderShinryu]

Because they invented a completely new personality to sell us a new mandatory bff immediately after a heroic and touching death scene. In the CT quests/SHB storyline he was eager to work with us and looked up to us but he didn't trip over his feet wiggle ears OwO UwU w-w-wol kun~ around us. I liked the exarch, I liked 2.x graha. I do not like what I've been saddled with.

Yep. I wasn't really a huge fan of Graha from the CT times but it wasn't that big a deal because he was a side character that barely existed. As Exarch he became interesting and actually mostly likeable, but his story completed in a very satisfying way. The choice of self sacrifice from such an innocent place suited the character and gave him closure. Post-Exarch they not only resurrected the goofy, overbearing WoL fanboy he used to be but also amped him up by 1000% to be a goofy, overbearing completely besotted WoL stalker that you're forced into having in your adventuring party. It wasn't just robbing the character of a natural end to his story, it was turning him into a weaponized retcon aimed squarely at those who didn't find him "Oh so adorable and perfect and must protecc" before.

[KizuyaKatogami]

How is G'raha surviving a plot hole?

Because they explicitly state multiple times throughout the story, the farther he is from the tower, the weaker he gets. They even go so far as to show us this in Kholusia when he almost passes out from taking on a few sin eaters and has to rest. So when he’s taken to the bottom of the ocean, the farthest he’s ever been, while also having been shot, really he should be the weakest he’s ever been. Yet he’s somehow able to summon 7 wol for the hades fight, despite not even being able to do that while under the full power of the crystal tower, he failed 4-5 times and that was just to get us, one person. Meanwhile he’s able to replicate it 7 times while being the farthest from the tower he’s ever been. If they had at least had him sacrifice himself to do it that would make a bit more sense than what we got.

Yep. We never lose - not, at least, on a strategic level. Final Fantasy used to take risks - in FFVI, we were defeated; we killed Kefka, but it was heavily implied that millions perished, and the world was irrevocably altered. We won, but we lost... and our victory couldn't reverse what had occured on our watch: burned cities, continents sundered, and magic (and a race of ancient magical beings) snuffed out. We failed, and others paid. It made the payoff at the end as much about revenge as rejoicing - it was a hollow victory, and because of that, it felt real.

I'm still waiting for FFXIV to hand us a situation like that - where the WoL comes up short, and there is no easy recovery. Something tells me that I'll be left disappointed. This story is just so nonchalant when it comes to perils and penalties. We simply do not experience anything more significant than minor setbacks.

Put it in better words than i could’ve. It just takes away from the moments for me. I don’t feel like i’ve achieved anything because it was all handed to me via plot armor and plot holes. A story filled with things like that isn’t a well-written one imo. Especially when they go back on their own lore points just to keep characters alive. It’s annoying for people who are heavily invested in the story and lore just for all that it be rendered meaningless because they can’t bring themselves to kill anyone off or give them consequences. Like you said i remember when final fantasy was all about consequences. FF6 is a good example, FF12 is another one where while the protag’s at the end of the day did defeat the antagonist, the antagonist still got what she wanted and the world slowly lost its magic and fell to ruin. Same thing happens in final fantasy 13 where the main character literally dies due to the antagonists actions and then the world gets destroyed.

[DPZ2]

The problem with the someone must die to feed my need for Angst attitude is that it rarely happens. Readers and movie-goers are so involved with the characters that anything that looks like a death for the sake of invoking a Sad will conjure up wrath.

In one word, from this game: Sultana.

Writers (and don't believe that movie scripts aren't a form of writing) want their works to be remembered fondly.

• Comics killed off Superman for plot reasons and ... Surprise! Well, that is a well-known trope involving multiple universes and the reasonable expectation of being pardoned by the audience.
• Someone shot JR (I know, kiddies, you probably weren't even born back then) for years and years of plot reasons and ... Surprise!
• Half of the entire Universe disappears at the flick of a finger and ... Surprise!
• A member of the Fellowship of the Ring dies, which advances the plot and ... Surprise!

The only folks who die and stay dead for no apparent reason are in horror movies and the novels of George R.R. Martin. Both are popular, but Final Fantasy XIV is neither horror nor a novel written by Mr. Martin.

The only member of the actual Fellowship of the Ring who dies had that death predicted through his own character flaws, and the guy still ends up being heroic.

Sacrifices are made in this game, many of them resulting in death. Some of them do not -- The only truly traumatic death in FFXIV to this point did not have his death predicted, and the guy's death ends up being tragic and a driver for the Warrior of Light for the rest of that expansion.