Need help / advice for this tank roulette situation

[Goji1639]

Where DPS are concerned I think "you pull it, you tank it" is a completely fair mindset for any tank. DPS aren't the ones who have to actually manage large pulls, so they don't get to make that call in any capacity.

Where Healers are concerned, my general stance is "If you pull it and bring it to me then I'll tank it, but you'd better be able to heal through it."

As a rule I'll generally go with whatever the Healer wants, since pull size impacts them the most; but they need to ask for bigger pulls and/or bring the enemies to me. If I'm Rescue pulled I'll just run back to where I was without picking up the adds.

[LittleArrow]

Where DPS are concerned I think "you pull it, you tank it" is a completely fair mindset for any tank. DPS aren't the ones who have to actually manage large pulls, so they don't get to make that call in any capacity.

Where Healers are concerned, my general stance is "If you pull it and bring it to me then I'll tank it, but you'd better be able to heal through it."

As a rule I'll generally go with whatever the Healer wants, since pull size impacts them the most; but they need to ask for bigger pulls and/or bring the enemies to me. If I'm Rescue pulled I'll just run back to where I was without picking up the adds.

Thank you for your response, I'm honestly interested in both sides of this argument. I do have confusion with this mindset, and maybe you can clarify this for me.

When I tank, I literally push a handful of buttons. My tank stance, sprint, aoe combo (2 buttons) and cycle through some mitigation cooldowns. I'm literally not managing anything other than the absolute bare minimum of my class. My DPS'ers are the ones who dictate how long I can stay up with their dps, and the healer dictates how long the party can survive the encounter with their heals. I honestly see zero skill or responsibility outside literally the base minimum of my class in what I do when I tank.

I think this might be a differing in opinion, in which case I deeply apologize if I'm coming off rude. I really want to try to understand the mindset, so if you could clarify I would greatly appreciate it

[Negotiator]

rescue pulled?

[Goji1639]

Thank you for your response, I'm honestly appreciative of both sides of this argument. I do have confusion with this mindset, and maybe you can clarify this for me.

When I tank, I literally push a handful of buttons. My tank stance, sprint, aoe combo (2 buttons) and cycle through some mitigation cooldowns. I'm literally not managing anything other than the absolute bare minimum of my class. My DPS'ers are the ones who dictate how long I can stay up with their dps, and the healer dictates how long the party can survive the encounter with their heals. I honestly see zero skill or responsibility outside literally the base minimum of my class in what I do when I tank.

I think this might be a differing in opinion, in which case I deeply apologize if I'm coming off rude. I really want to try to understand the mindset, so if you could clarify I would greatly appreciate it

The tanks responsibility is managing cooldown's. If DPS is slow and I have to blow too many strong CDs on one pull the subsequent pulls are going to be smaller; unless the healer thinks he can keep me up on a no CD wall to wall pull in an instance like Snowcloak or Stone Vigil.

DPS have the exact same job whether it's 4 enemies or 100 of them; they don't have to adjust anything based on the size/speed of pulling, so them trying to dictate the size/speed of pulls isn't acceptable.

If you're not noticing much responsibility based on the size of a pull while tanking, then you're probably just putting a lot of that on the Healer. The Healer has the biggest workload adjustment and the most responsibility based on the size of a pull, so it's good to listen to what they would prefer. DPS need to kind of just mind themselves and stay in line, though.

[SannaR]

rescue pulled?

What you never had a healer go to the next pack and use rescue on you? It's fairly rare and there are times that it is a healer doing so to their tank friend who supposedly doesn't mind it. However there are also times when a healer doesn't care about a tank who might be rusty or unsure of their skills and feel like they're pulling too slow or whatnot and rescue the tank into the next pack.

[LittleArrow]

The tanks responsibility is managing cooldown's. If DPS is slow and I have to blow too many strong CDs on one pull the subsequent pulls are going to be smaller; unless the healer thinks he can keep me up on a no CD wall to wall pull in an instance like Snowcloak or Stone Vigil.

DPS have the exact same job whether it's 4 enemies or 100 of them; they don't have to adjust anything based on the size/speed of pulling, so them trying to dictate the size/speed of pulls isn't acceptable.

If you're not noticing much responsibility based on the size of a pull while tanking, then you're probably just putting a lot of that on the Healer. The Healer has the biggest workload adjustment and the most responsibility based on the size of a pull, so it's good to listen to what they would prefer. DPS need to kind of just mind themselves and stay in line, though.

Thanks for the response. I agree with the healer having the heaviest burden, thus I always check with the healer the size of pulls to take as a tank. I think I'll have to just agree to disagree as I do not see anything you've typed to warrant literally punishing another player based on pulling.

I do see that this mentality is one that I will have to deal with going forward and I'll need to adjust my gameplay. However, I cannot find it acceptable to willfully allow another player die, despite the fact that I can prevent it, purely based off principle. The sole job of the tank is to keep aggro, not teach other players lessons, imo. If we wipe due to extra mobs, I will apologize for my inability to offset the pull and ask for others not to pull more. Still, I would -never- punish a player for something that I can at least attempt to handle on my own and if the healer is capable.

I am happy to see in the few responses I've seen this thread that this 'punishment mentality' is not the majority opinion. I'm also happy that even though the times I've encountered this behavior have been so extremely distressing, it hasn't been the majority.

I am glad to have a better idea as to what's going on the other side, even if I firmly disagree with it.

[Izar_Chillen]

I must ask , what region do you play in?

I ask this because here and elsewhere on Reddit ( the meme or tales of subreddit) all these reports of such players seem to be all North American based data centres.

Im on an EU data centre , and like everyone , we to have had the big influx of players , yet , like always most sprouts are just "hi , O/, elo, im new , any tips" or dead silence when doing dungeons even when a veteran dps doing dailes is in the grp or a vet healer (if im not that role myself) pulling more .

Personally in all my time playing Iv never seen an" abundance " of thin skinned tank/healers moaning especially after the recent player influx , at all.

Am I just lucky or is it something about NA players culture, that seem to spawn these issues ?

[LittleArrow]

I must ask , what region do you play in?

I ask this because here and elsewhere on Reddit ( the meme or tales of subreddit) all these reports of such players seem to be all North American based data centres.

Im on an EU data centre , and like everyone , we to have had the big influx of players , yet , like always most sprouts are just "hi , O/, elo, im new , any tips" or dead silence when doing dungeons even when a veteran dps doing dailes is in the grp or a vet healer (if im not that role myself) pulling more .

Personally in all my time playing Iv never seen an" abundance " of thin skinned tank/healers moaning especially after the recent player influx , at all.

Am I just lucky or is it something about NA players culture, that seem to spawn these issues ?

As you guessed, I do play on the NA region data centers.

I cannot comment on the "thinskinned' nature of tanks, but I have to say, this is not the majority of my experience, even if, as I said, it has been on a steady increase compared to the last 10yrs I played the game (including 1.x in that timespan).

I apologize if I make it seem like it's happening every other roulette. It's happening often enough that I'm uncomfortable going into roulette as anything but a tank, but I know i need to suck it up and get over it.

I really disagree with the behavior, and it's honestly in opposition to what this community has taught me as an online gamer. Still, I can only control myself, and it gives me courage to see others agree that this behavior isn't appropriate, as well as advice on how to handle it going forward.

[StriderShinryu]

I'd imagine the tank themselves may be a little unsure of what they're supposed to be doing. They feel the pressure to be the leader and to multi pull, but maybe they're not sure if they're doing the right thing or aren't confident in their ability to handle a multi pull. Maybe they're not confident in how their healer performed on the last pull. Maybe they're just coming from a different game where pulls are handled a little differently.

The best thing you can do it just try to communicate with them. Other than that, I just try to always stay behind the tank. If that means the run is a little stop-starty instead of being smooth then it's not really that big of a deal. But, yeah, if the tank is just a jackass then you should either try a kick or leave yourself. At least try talking to them first though because maybe it really is a question of confidence or knowledge.

[Negotiator]

What you never had a healer go to the next pack and use rescue on you? It's fairly rare and there are times that it is a healer doing so to their tank friend who supposedly doesn't mind it. However there are also times when a healer doesn't care about a tank who might be rusty or unsure of their skills and feel like they're pulling too slow or whatnot and rescue the tank into the next pack.

No, that sounds like fun tho. Pull me into it!