The problem with jobs?

[ItMe]

Well if the playerbase spoke long ago on it then I can't really argue against it.

It's not just that the playerbase spoke against it, but the devs didn't care for it either..

We used to have elemental weaknesses/resistances too, but the devs saw people abusing it to cheese content in ways that made them increasingly unhappy, like parties of Black Mages loading up on materia that boosted damage for whatever element the boss was weak to and just burning it down before it could do mechanics.

The breaking point was when it became the regular to rock 1 healer 7 dps parties on Rhamu EX where a single Titan Egi tanked. After that they didn't even wait for a patch to remove the elemental wheel, they just hot fixed it out.

[Vyrerus]

It's not just that the playerbase spoke against it, but the devs didn't care for it either..

We used to have elemental weaknesses/resistances too, but the devs saw people abusing it to cheese content in ways that made them increasingly unhappy, like parties of Black Mages loading up on materia that boosted damage for whatever element the boss was weak to and just burning it down before it could do mechanics.

The breaking point was when it became the regular to rock 1 healer 7 dps parties on Rhamu EX where a single Titan Egi tanked. After that they didn't even wait for a patch to remove the elemental wheel, they just hot fixed it out.

What? There was no elemental wheel in 2.0. You're likely thinking of SMN used to have access to Thunder 1, allowing it to have the highest single target and AOE damage in 2.0.

Titan Egi didn't have an elemental advantage over Ramuh(though he traditionally would). Because pets took damage at a reduced level because they used to have HP back then, and SE wanted to take it easy on pet users, Titan Egi circumvented the Shock Strike Orb gathering tank mechanic, and it was beautiful. Instead of taking 17k from Shock Strike, Titan Egi took maybe 3k. Glorious.

[Rannie]

What? There was no elemental wheel in 2.0. You're likely thinking of SMN used to have access to Thunder 1, allowing it to have the highest single target and AOE damage in 2.0.

Titan Egi didn't have an elemental advantage over Ramuh(though he traditionally would). Because pets took damage at a reduced level because they used to have HP back then, and SE wanted to take it easy on pet users, Titan Egi circumvented the Shock Strike Orb gathering tank mechanic, and it was beautiful. Instead of taking 17k from Shock Strike, Titan Egi took maybe 3k. Glorious.

The elemental Weakness/resistance was in 1.0 and they got rid of it... we were able to throw stats and stuff into elemental as well back in 1.0

[Vyrerus]

The elemental Weakness/resistance was in 1.0 and they got rid of it... we were able to throw stats and stuff into elemental as well back in 1.0

Yeah, I've heard 1.0 had a neat thing with MNK's fists doing elemental damage, and magical system more akin to FFXI's. Just like, it was most certainly phased out by 2.0. Heh.

People did like to stack casters in 2.0 though, what with Foe's Requiem being insanely good and specifically for them.

[Payadopa]

otherwise people just meta it to choose limited “best” options (see Guildwars 2), which makes it simply illusion of choice.

I really dislike that argument. Every game follows a certain rule set, therefore if I game the system I can speed run the win state. The illusion can be a powerful tool if done right and your argument just assumes that every single player will do either number crunching or look up a guide and therefore nobody else is allowed (the illusion of) freedom. That's a very reductive way of playing, to say the least.

[Raikai]

Oh so that what happened? Well if the playerbase spoke long ago on it then I can't really argue against it.

It is the nature of the beast. Whenever they introduce this kind of utility to MMOs like this, it's inevitable that certain player options will be locked off content. Players love to min-max even when it isn't really needed... I honestly can't think of a MMO that pushed something like this and didn't change at some point.

The best you can bet or wish for, I suppose, would be more of non-detrimental (ie. Curing Waltz), personal (ie. Manaward) or niche (ie. Holy's stun) utilities. Basically anything else that would provide direct dps boosts.

[Wavaryen]

I hated the game when it was like this.

[ItMe]

What? There was no elemental wheel in 2.0. You're likely thinking of [...]

Ah, my bad.
You're correct, I'm mistakenly conflating a few ideas.

[Rymi64]

Exactly. It's not like you can't switch on the fly anyway. And in my group we all play what we feel like anyway. Nobody cares about the meta.

Nobody cares about the meta because 1) there really isnt a meta and 2) playing with friends is a different situation from playing with pugs.

[ForteNightshade]

Exactly. It's not like you can't switch on the fly anyway. And in my group we all play what we feel like anyway. Nobody cares about the meta.

But the community as a whole does. If you made fights favor certain jobs enough it made switches a noticeable damage increase, people will start mandating it. Another problem is gearing secondary or tertiary jobs can be much harder. Case in point, you can't easily swap between the Melee since, for some silly reason, they don't all share gear. Granted, you also have the Casters where only one of them likes Spell Speed.