My two requests for PLD in Endwalker

[Ultimatecalibur]

I agree that something needs to be done for Clemency. Making it oGCD is part of the solution probably, but not the shield oath.
You most likely will still never use it and would keep shielding instead. And it would not be as good for solo play either.

It doesn't need to be ogcd to be generally useful; it jut needs to be mostly DpS neutral rather than a 525/375 potency loss each cast. Give Clemency a trait that makes it give a 30s buff that increases the potency of the next Holy Spirit/Holy Circle by 350/250 potency and you will see it used more.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Paladin already has enough utility as it is, it does not need a raise, nor do I want to see the raise tax be thrown onto Paladin, let alone have people use that as an excuse to lower Paladin's overall damage output. "Paladin has a raise so should do less damage than all the other tanks" for a situation that may or may not occur, even though mp and GCDs lost isn't enough of a cost. Granted SMN and RDM have finally started moving away from this design choice thankfully, much of that mindset still is here.

As for Clemency, in normal content, I find it is extremely rare that I ever have a need for it, much the same in Savage and Ultimates, with the exception of prog. Sure, there are times when healers go down and you might have to use it. Overall Clemency is very situational in nature, great prog tool, great solo play tool, terrible normal play skill.

But adding Clemency to oGCD will very much remove it's ability to spam, if oath gauge is the cost, if mp is still a cost a potency nerf would be required, and lastly as an oGCD it would be moved into the ability category instead of a spell so would not gain any effect from Requiescat.

[Mithron]

Paladin already has enough utility as it is, it does not need a raise, nor do I want to see the raise tax be thrown onto Paladin, let alone have people use that as an excuse to lower Paladin's overall damage output. "Paladin has a raise so should do less damage than all the other tanks" for a situation that may or may not occur, even though mp and GCDs lost isn't enough of a cost. Granted SMN and RDM have finally started moving away from this design choice thankfully, much of that mindset still is here.

As for Clemency, in normal content, I find it is extremely rare that I ever have a need for it, much the same in Savage and Ultimates, with the exception of prog. Sure, there are times when healers go down and you might have to use it. Overall Clemency is very situational in nature, great prog tool, great solo play tool, terrible normal play skill.

But adding Clemency to oGCD will very much remove it's ability to spam, if oath gauge is the cost, if mp is still a cost a potency nerf would be required, and lastly as an oGCD it would be moved into the ability category instead of a spell so would not gain any effect from Requiescat.

I think PLD should have the lowest damage as utility should be traded for damage. Thematically speaking, PLD should have most utility and should be lowest DPS of the four tanks. This is good, healthy, proper game design in my opinion. RDM and SMN should have lower DPS than BLM since BLM offers no utility. Having a Raise would be massive utility when pugging, and save a lot of wipes.

Clemancy is never used because it's GCD and MP, making it a massive DPS loss. Adding it to Oath Gauge, no MP cost and OGCD means it's actually usable without lowering DPS, and giving you a fourth tool to use Oath Gauge on: Sheltron, Intervene, Cover, or Clemancy. I think this would make PLD a lot more enjoyable and better for utility. It shouldn't be affected by Requiscat as that should be for DPS rotation only, not utility, in my opinion.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I think PLD should have the lowest damage as utility should be traded for damage. Thematically speaking, PLD should have most utility and should be lowest DPS of the four tanks. This is good, healthy, proper game design in my opinion. RDM and SMN should have lower DPS than BLM since BLM offers no utility. Having a Raise would be massive utility when pugging, and save a lot of wipes.

Clemancy is never used because it's GCD and MP, making it a massive DPS loss. Adding it to Oath Gauge, no MP cost and OGCD means it's actually usable without lowering DPS, and giving you a fourth tool to use Oath Gauge on: Sheltron, Intervene, Cover, or Clemancy. I think this would make PLD a lot more enjoyable and better for utility. It shouldn't be affected by Requiscat as that should be for DPS rotation only, not utility, in my opinion.

That's a hard nope, damage type is a massive factor in determining DPS of tanks. Warrior and Dark Knight have heavy burst openers, so their damage has to have a bigger drop off to compensate. Paladin and Gunbreaker have less burst in comparison therefore have to have a higher sustain.

It is also worth pointing out Paladin has one less personal mitigation tool, when compared to the other 3 tanks, which is a fair trade off. Further, Paladin has the highest cost factor to it's utility than any other tank. 50 gauge is a requirement to use one of two actions, and has to be weighed up against Sheltron usage. Divine Veil requires co-ordination, and Passage of Arms can be a loss in DPS, if required to channel (this should only be done in down time where a loss will not occur, but some exceptions may apply).

Raise on a tank is not healthy nor does it make sense, and while I do not agree with Lyth's want for restrictions on raise, I do agree that we have more than enough jobs with a raise currently.

Thus far I find your opinion completely out of touch with how the job currently plays, and would add nothing of benefit to Paladin, and personally think your ideas would ruin probably the best designed tank at present. If it ain't broke it don't need fixing.

[Ramesses]

2. Give PLD a slow cast raise that can be cast in battle. Seeing as they do not have Swiftcast, it should remain a slow cast.

This.

I suspect that Paladins will eventually get Raise as a level 90 or 99 skill-- it's definitely coming, look forward to it.

[KDSilver]

I prefer Clemency to stay as it is.
A niche skill you like to have when things get ugly, which can happen a lot in DF.

Being able to cast it mostly whenever you want feels great.
Yes, Paladin doesn't have the same self-healing capabilites without sacrificing dps as Warrior, but that's what's remain of class indentity, something a lot of people have complained about for Shb.

As for the raise ability, I don't know.
We know what happen with balance and raise, rdm already suffered a lot for that
But having it on a slow cast could balance it already since it would be a big dps loss.
So why not I guess ? But it would make paladin a must have for prog then if other tank don't have something to compensate.

[ItMe]

I think PLD should have the lowest damage as utility should be traded for damage. Thematically speaking, PLD should have most utility and should be lowest DPS of the four tanks. This is good, healthy, proper game design in my opinion.

Considering how damage centric this game is, if any class did notably less damage than the other classes in its role it would be dropped like a rock. This has happened before and we have every reason to believe it would happen again.

Additionally, more utility wouldn't be a very compelling tradeoff. Maybe it could be a useful prog tool for when everyone is messing up, but as soon as people have it down and are actually pushing for a clear the PLD's lower damage is just a liability and they'd be better off swapping jobs at that point.

If PLD had more/better utility to make up for the lower damage, it might lead to some clever cheese strats, but that would still regulate the job to a niche pick you'd not only use just in certain fights, but also only if your static/PUG is behind the idea. And "niche" is not a healthy place for a class to be.

It's also questionable how much the utility would be useful to pugging in the first place. We can't say until we see the proposed tools.

But extra survivability and better prog tools aren't even all that valued. You mention a rez and the casters next:

RDM and SMN should have lower DPS than BLM since BLM offers no utility. Having a Raise would be massive utility when pugging, and save a lot of wipes.

However, when parties were recruiting for TEA, Red Mages were being flat out rejected from groups. Sure, the Rez Mage and can be instrumental in keeping your pull together, but even for prog BLM and the overturned SMN were just bringing so much more damage that RDMs got widely passed up.
Sure, that's Ultimate content, but that's also the Rez Mage being rejected from the most lethal level of content.

I can see where you're coming from, especially from a thematic standpoint, but I don't think FF14's design could allow a "this is the defensive tank" sort of class to succeed.

[Jandor]

Clemency is fine as it is, not every button needs to be useful in every scenario. Leave a little flavour on jobs.

What I would like though, is for Divine Veil to put a shield on the PLD first, and then pressing it again spreads it to the party. Makes it a flexible option then, a choice between personal or party mitigation.

[VargasVermillion]

I would rather clemency stay the same, making it an oGCD would just make PLD feel more homogenized, if you want to heal more efficiently you can already sacrifice damage to do it and that fits thematically. My personal request would be an ability similar to shield swipe, an ability that's triggered/available on block or comes from a resource gained from block (stacks).

[Lyth]

Let's take a look at some of the ideas in this thread.

1) I want to be able to instant cast raise on a job that can invuln through mechanics.
2) I want WAR to use Cover, an iconic PLD ability with thirty years of history behind it.
3) I want an oGCD heal that I can use on demand without a recast timer attached. Something that no healer in the game has access to.

What worries me is that the dev team will probably try to implement these.