WHM 1-2-3

[Semirhage]

That's been one of the problems with the WHM class for a while now... it just doesn't flow very well.

Absolutely. And the relative lack of oGCDs doesn't even help that terrible flow. You probably already know these things, but for the benefit of anyone else reading: Presence of Mind is not only an oGCD that needs a weave space to use, but it also goofily pushes you forward a non-whole number of GCDs that misaligns your new GCD timer from your currently ticking cooldowns. Plenary not only requires you to use GCD heals to proc it, but it requires you to pre-cast it using a weave window before you GCD heal, so you can't even really use a lily properly to create that window unless you have more than one. Need to use Benediction on that Dark Knight? Haha screw you, you've got 20 seconds on that Dia timer. Better blow a lily uselessly healing the tank you're already going to full cure, or just clip it! Assize being 45 seconds means it only lines up with every second Dia, so you need to create a window to weave it elsewhere. Or just clip it. Lucid hogs one of your two precious weave spaces every time it comes up. Benison would feel like more of a usable choice-creating tool than it does if you could just weave it at your leisure instead of trying to cram it into one of your few openings when you can spare it. Or clipping it. Big roomwide AOE coming up? Oh good, Dia's got 15 seconds left. Better clip that Temperance in, gosh it must be nice to play an Astro who can just use their entire kit whenever they see an enemy castbar show up.

White Mage has the hilarious reputation of the "reactive" healer, but its crapass cliptastic gameplay requires way more preplanning than the "proactive" healers just to properly weave its abilities in. Your oGCDs can't be reactive in the slightest unless you just give up all pretense of riding your GCD.

[Almagnus1]

Absolutely. And the relative lack of oGCDs doesn't even help that terrible flow. You probably already know these things, but for the benefit of anyone else reading: Presence of Mind is not only an oGCD that needs a weave space to use, but it also goofily pushes you forward a non-whole number of GCDs that misaligns your new GCD timer from your currently ticking cooldowns. Plenary not only requires you to use GCD heals to proc it, but it requires you to pre-cast it using a weave window before you GCD heal, so you can't even really use a lily properly to create that window unless you have more than one. Need to use Benediction on that Dark Knight? Haha screw you, you've got 20 seconds on that Dia timer. Better blow a lily uselessly healing the tank you're already going to full cure, or just clip it! Assize being 45 seconds means it only lines up with every second Dia, so you need to create a window to weave it elsewhere. Or just clip it. Lucid hogs one of your two precious weave spaces every time it comes up. Benison would feel like more of a usable choice-creating tool than it does if you could just weave it at your leisure instead of trying to cram it into one of your few openings when you can spare it. Or clipping it. Big roomwide AOE coming up? Oh good, Dia's got 15 seconds left. Better clip that Temperance in, gosh it must be nice to play an Astro who can just use their entire kit whenever they see an enemy castbar show up.

White Mage has the hilarious reputation of the "reactive" healer, but its crapass cliptastic gameplay requires way more preplanning than the "proactive" healers just to properly weave its abilities in. Your oGCDs can't be reactive in the slightest unless you just give up all pretense of riding your GCD.

That's a large reason why I want to move to a system where we have short cast times and a bunch of OGCDs as that gives WHM the most flexibility possible... without needing to clip every single spell....

[Liam_Harper]

I'd say WHM just needs more instant GCD's. Lilies helped, but are far from enough and using your healing toolkit just to move isn't really enjoyable. It's less of a decision making and more trying to mitigate bad design and dump healing on your co-heal.

But there could be plenty of ideas like making Assize an instant GCD with 2 charges, making Misery cost 1 blood Lily so you can fire more off, making an instant GCD proc that detonates the remaining duration of Dia and so on. If WHM is to have an identity of taking advantage of weave windows, it needs to actually have proper windows.

I'd be ok with the 1.5 treatment, but it would mean significantly bumping up WHM's oGCD kit so it actually has use for infinite weave slots. Which could be fine too, done right.

[Grimoire-M]

So how might White Mage design go about solving the Clipmage problem? 1.5 second casts is just an easy, if lazy way to do it. While it doesn't necessarily have to happen the same way, "having the ability to weave your oGCDs" also isn't some Astrologian-exclusive identity. It's the hallmark of a class that's actually designed to flow well.

Well, like I said, White Mage’s Lily system needs more GCDs to supplement it. To me it’s done via a combination of instant GCD spells with soft cooldowns. Ideally these additional options would have other purposes to facilitate their use. As an example, Aero III comes to mind as an option that could return. Tune it so it equals Glare on a single target and make it instant cast and retain its AoE component, but lower the DoT duration to 6 or 9s so it can be a frequent but not sole contributor, while also serving the purpose of improving WHM’s AoE DPS and weaving options.

Another option would be a spell with assize-like effects and charges. It could have single target and AoE variants but distinguish itself by working off of an excog-like trigger, where the heal is applied the next time the target takes any damage (meaning shields and PLD/GNB invul CDs can buffer its application). The single target version due to targeting limitations would buff an ally with a burst bomb around the initial target of their next attack. This would serve to add to WHM’s DPS and healing potential on fights with certain periods of downtime as well as add to their burst healing potential when prepared properly or serve as a Rapture alternative in situations where that is at its best.

[KDSilver]

I'm not for every class to be the same but...
AST 1,5s cast exist because it used to clip like hell remember ?
So that's not entirely a "AST thing" to begin with.

Just a reminder.

[Jirah]

Casters and ranged shouldn’t get 1-2-3 (yes MCH has one but I’ve said many times MCH isn’t very good)

BLM is more procs and teeter stuff aswell as some movement spice added, RDM is teetering and procs aswell as a finisher which makes sense cuz it’s a RDM, SMN is more dot management and preservation. BRD has procs and dots, DNC has 1-2 shabbiness and Procs.

So naturally WHM (or most healers) should be split and have more tame rotations like how tanks have bare minimums for 1-2-3. One with Dot manganent, one with proc juggling, on with teetering, and one with movement hindrance ie leylines. Idk just a idea but their attacks should be simple forms of casters and ranged not physical melee

[Semirhage]

If we're ignoring things like potions and limit break and just sticking to job abilities, White Mage has twenty-nine. And that's if you slot useless crap abilities like Repose and Fluid Aura. Astrologian has thirty-five. And people can hotbar their abilities just fine. If White Mage has "too many abilities", I have no idea how anyone plays any other job in this game. White Mage has noticeably, significantly fewer spells than both other healers. Its bloat is in its useless, redundant abilities. It in no way has "too many" spells.

[Acece]

If ya'll cant put 26 spells on your hot bar idk how ya'll play jobs like sam and pld

[Marc-Vigar]

If we're ignoring things like potions and limit break and just sticking to job abilities, White Mage has twenty-nine. And that's if you slot useless crap abilities like Repose and Fluid Aura. Astrologian has thirty-five. And people can hotbar their abilities just fine. If White Mage has "too many abilities", I have no idea how anyone plays any other job in this game. White Mage has noticeably, significantly fewer spells than both other healers. Its bloat is in its useless, redundant abilities. It in no way has "too many" spells.

Thats my point... you keep saying "IF YOU IGNORE THINGS LIKE XXXX" but that's not what you should be doing. All kinds of potions, LB, utilty spells, etc should be kept in the hotbar for when the right situation comes.

Is Fluid Aura gonna do anything for you in savage content? No.

Is there content beyond savage where everything has it's uses? Yes.

Maybe instead of ignoring half the spells because "it's a dps loss" or some stupidity like that as if you were going for world's first, which you aren't, you could figure out what to do with them.

Judging by the upvotes I'm sure half the people here only use Cure 2, Medica 2 and Dia, then you wonder "wHyY iS tHIs so BoRINg mY HotBarZZ aRE eMptY zzZz".

I'm done with this thread, luckily for me SE doesn't care about any of your suggestions.

[Acece]

Thats my point... you keep saying "IF YOU IGNORE THINGS LIKE XXXX" but that's not what you should be doing. All kinds of potions, LB, utilty spells, etc should be kept in the hotbar for when the right situation comes.

Is Fluid Aura gonna do anything for you in savage content? No.

Is there content beyond savage where everything has it's uses? Yes.

Maybe instead of ignoring half the spells because "it's a dps loss" or some stupidity like that as if you were going for world's first, which you aren't, you could figure out what to do with them.

Judging by the upvotes I'm sure half the people here only use Cure 2, Medica 2 and Dia, then you wonder "wHyY iS tHIs so BoRINg mY HotBarZZ aRE eMptY zzZz".

I'm done with this thread, luckily for me SE doesn't care about any of your suggestions.

There's a reason why people don't use fluid aura other then to meme. I don't think I've ever used it since I unlocked it and got confused why it did no damage.

If playing bad makes things more fun for you then go for it dude but saying it's the "correct way of playing" is ridiculous at best
That's like saying ice mage is the correct way to play black mage or playing free style sam is the best way of playing it lol.