Former WoW player: Suggested changes to FFXIV Raiding end-game

[ForteNightshade]

Former WoW player here too. I want FFXIV to stay how it is and not cater to requests that other games do it better. Im pretty sure the reason WoW is in its current state is due to requests from the playerbase like this.

It's actually quite the opposite. Blizzard devs notoriously don't listen to their playerbase whatsoever. Several of the mechanics in BfA and Shadowlands were heavily criticised in their PTA phase but still thrust into the game because the devs don't actually play it. Asmon even mentioned being told by people he knows in the company who said the dev team is baffled why players hate the new system. Take that with a grain of salt but considering how poor Blizzard's response has been to all the criticism WoW receives. I'm inclined to believe him. The devs seem clueless.

None of this is to say I necessarily agree with the OP or that every player idea is good because... oh boy, they aren't. But claiming Blizzard is in the state it's in because of player feedback is simply wrong.

[GeminiReed]

#4 is an absolute non-starter for me. I desperately wish for Square (or any MMO maker, really) to push down the level where the core single target and aoe rotations are complete. It's bad enough that the level cap skill tends to be what makes a rotation work. I've played far too many MMOs where the set bonuses fundamentally changed a rotation. Maybe you like to play guess the rotation, but that's not something I find fun in the least.

[ItMe]

#4 is an absolute non-starter for me. I desperately wish for Square (or any MMO maker, really) to push down the level where the core single target and aoe rotations are complete. It's bad enough that the level cap skill tends to be what makes a rotation work. I've played far too many MMOs where the set bonuses fundamentally changed a rotation. Maybe you like to play guess the rotation, but that's not something I find fun in the least.

I agree. I feel like skill/spell speed enabling multiple rotations is about as much as FF14 should be doing.

[TaleraRistain]

They should definitely step-up in the amount of hard content they are releasing though. Especially with the amount of WoW refugees coming in lately, who are used to playing a raid-centric game.

Hard disagree here. I feel for the WoW players that they're finding themselves without their preferred game to play. However, this is not WoW and the solution is not to have this game become WoW. WoW players should appreciate this game for what it offers, and if it's not offering what they need, then there are other options. We all have that choice and many of us stay here because it's not like other games out there and doesn't focus on the same things.

[ksuyen]

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. definitely no.

There, my answers.

[Shurrikhan]

1. Plenty of monsters take priority in dungeons, many require interrupts and dodging, are you asking for more 1 hit KO skills?

There is no point in prioritizing mobs in dungeons. Generally, you do the opposite, directing auto-attack damage and ST oGCDs against whichever mob has the highest health left so the die together, rather than any particular mob dying first. No mobs require interrupts. Very, very few bosses do, either.

Just because a pull is wall to wall doesn't mean me as the tank is not focusing and stunning/silencing stuff.

You have one at-most 5-second stun (at best stopping 2 auto-attacks) to which any significant enemy past Ifrit will be immune, and a single interrupt, per 30 seconds. That's not exactly a gameplay loop so much as just a feature of having brought a WHM.

the trash and 10min run times between bosses is why I never raid in WoW

You can just place a checkpoint right before the boss room... Having initial trash does not necessitate that you have to run back from the very beginning. Heck, it doesn't even do that in WoW unless there are also shortcuts from the central starting room.

No thank you, if you want extra challenging you can do at min ilvl and do Ultimate fights.

I don't think I'll ever understand this warrant.

'One (increasingly stale) variety of content has a challenging mode, so don't ask for challenge in any other forms of content.' ????

This is very WoW mentality and part of the reason its community is running away, simplistic gearing is nice, it lets them focus on encounters not worrying if BLM A has "BIS LEET GEARZOR" having gearing disparities breeds toxicity.

Those gear disparities already exist. Jobs here can be screwed over by poor optimization in a given tier to about the same extent as an "inferior" collection of secondary stats on a given spec in WoW; the difference is merely that WoW will tend to have had more options for a particular slot at a given item level and sees more tangible impact from those secondary stats (even if far less so in Shadowlands).

And, no, having a modicum of actual or impactful choice in one's gearing does not suddenly reduce what designs are possible in developing encounters.

And if you don't think that toxicity exists here already, take a look at reactions to tanks who stack Tenacity, or healers who stack Piety, since those, in their tuning and design, have been left always-inferior choices (effectively, non-choices). It's a damn sight more vehement than any secondary stat mismatch in WoW.

[Shurrikhan]

Strength. Tenacity. Dexterity. Intelligence. Mind.

These are already built into the game and are 'job specific'. Gear for a particular job swims in these stats. The stats change depending on which job you're currently playing.

TL;DR The game already has what you're requesting.

No, the game has nothing like what was being requested.

The example was Mastery, a stat available to every spec and useful to every spec, but the effects of which varies by spec. That has nothing to do with Power-but-for-melee-other-than-Ninja, Power-but-for-Ninja-and-Ranged, Power-but-for-DPS-Casters, and Power-but-for-healers. Those aren't job-specific effects. They're the same effect. They're just convoluted to extend time spent grinding.

A closer example here would be if, say, you had a stat which increased proc rates or resource generation by a job-specific percentage (as to leave it balanced near Crit and DHit), or which added a variably intense mechanic to one's playflow.

_____________________

Personally, I'd be cool with just having actual choice in secondary stats and a bit more % effectiveness per stat point. But that requires some further polish.

Jobs vary pretty significantly in the portion of their damage that stems from oGCDs. That's a whole portion on which SkS/SpS (which should be consolidated into simple Haste rather than continuing to uniquely screw over PLD and DRK) has no contribution. So either Haste needs to be scaled differently per job, to provide equal value to the stat, or there needs to at least be a compensatory mechanic. I'd say the latter will probably be the worse option, though, as most compensatory mechanic concepts can only function by watering down the distinction between stats. There's also the imbalance in MP efficiency, though that could be easily solved by placing MP ticks on a rate equal to player GCD, rather than on a 3-second server tick.

Similarly, increase both the peaks of secondary stats and the between-expansion valleys. That's not to say the maximum Crit chance we can achieve by the final patch should increase from expansion to expansion, but merely that we should both be able to hit some significant peak in %Haste or %Crit, etc., by each final patch and that those percentiles shouldn't dive so sharply with the new expansion. In the end, secondary stats are at least as much about having some sense of impactful choice by which to play a bit more in the style we want (i.e., about the actual percentages in play) as the sense of power progression for a given expansion's endgame (i.e., the increase in percentages or, more importantly, the damage thus provided).

Heck, I wouldn't even mind losing Materia as it stands presently. For how much it bloats our inventory, it provides little more than a constant, dull gil-sink. I'd far sooner rather have a single, separate slot by which to just drop in just one customizable, any-job Materia for an oversided dollop of secondary stat of my choice -- say, adding Haste until X, and then Crit. Voila, rather than micromanaging gear to be able to play with the rotation I want, I can just choose it then and there. Choiceful, impactful, convenient.

[Garnix]

Hard disagree here. I feel for the WoW players that they're finding themselves without their preferred game to play. However, this is not WoW and the solution is not to have this game become WoW. WoW players should appreciate this game for what it offers, and if it's not offering what they need, then there are other options. We all have that choice and many of us stay here because it's not like other games out there and doesn't focus on the same things.

Again, I am not saying that it should become WoW and become all about raids.

I am a casual player myself and don't do any difficult content whatsoever.
I think that the team is doing a good job for players like me. The amount of non-endgame-raiding content is fine. And they are adding more and more and more over time.
Including that Island Sanctuary which is likely to become a big part of my time in game depending on what it actually ends up being.

However, what I am observing is that a lot of the criticisms the game is getting, especially with Shadowbringers, and even from people who have been playing the game for years, are about the lack of challenging content.
So, while I personally don't care, I think they should not cater to any specific audience. Which means there should be more casual content AND more difficult content.

[Jojoya]

Again, I am not saying that it should become WoW and become all about raids.

I am a casual player myself and don't do any difficult content whatsoever.
I think that the team is doing a good job for players like me. The amount of non-endgame-raiding content is fine. And they are adding more and more and more over time.
Including that Island Sanctuary which is likely to become a big part of my time in game depending on what it actually ends up being.

However, what I am observing is that a lot of the criticisms the game is getting, especially with Shadowbringers, and even from people who have been playing the game for years, are about the lack of challenging content.
So, while I personally don't care, I think they should not cater to any specific audience. Which means there should be more casual content AND more difficult content.

Any game has to decide on what audience it wants to cater to. It's impossible to please everyone. There's not enough time to make enough content for everyone to get something they want.

Deviate from what had been a successful formula and you end up with a WoW - a game with a player base a fraction of the size of what it had been at its peak with the numbers being masked by a reboot of the original game that's turned out to be more popular than what the game has become.

[VelKallor]

it provides little more than a constant, dull gil-sink.

Um...you DO know you can get clusters to buy materia?

by a reboot of the original game that's turned out to be more popular than what the game has become.

WOW classic has failed, the servers are deserted, and even their TBC remake has been a flop.