Former WoW player: Suggested changes to FFXIV Raiding end-game

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Goodbye! Farewell!

Wait, but He's still here, and OPs bad idea isnt in the game.

[Ath192]

Yeah I think they should implement all of these ideas. And for the people that do not want any difficulty to get introduced into the game or fear getting lost even though they can press the map key bind and literally see a map of the dungeon layout they should also add an option to simply run the dungeon with no enemies or bosses and also GPS style way marks so they make sure they know where they are going, They can also be accompanied by the trusts that can run along with them. That way they can just run through the dungeon with no danger or possibility of getting lost and they can just see the cutscenes at the end and move on with the MSQ.

I think they can cater to those who like combat and those who don't, they already have the explorer mode set up for dungeons so it shouldn't be hard for them. That way they don't have to compromise the dungeons to the point where no one is happy with them.

I also think the rewards should be equal for both, that way they wont complain and you get people who actually want to fight in dungeons and raids. Truth be told skill/knowledge makes a good player in this game so I could care less if they are running in a fully augmented tomestone set at endgame.

There's no point in forcing combat on players that dont want any difficulty.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Yeah I think they should implement all of these ideas. And for the people that do not want any difficulty to get introduced into the game or fear getting lost even though they can press the map key bind and literally see a map of the dungeon layout they should also add an option to simply run the dungeon with no enemies or bosses and also GPS style way marks so they make sure they know where they are going, They can also be accompanied by the trusts that can run along with them. That way they can just run through the dungeon with no danger or possibility of getting lost and they can just see the cutscenes at the end and move on with the MSQ.

I think they can cater to those who like combat and those who don't, they already have the explorer mode set up for dungeons so it shouldn't be hard for them. That way they don't have to compromise the dungeons to the point where no one is happy with them.

I also think the rewards should be equal for both, that way they wont complain and you get people who actually want to fight in dungeons and raids. Truth be told skill/knowledge makes a good player in this game so I could care less if they are running in a fully augmented tomestone set at endgame.

There's no point in forcing combat on players that dont want any difficulty.

Uhh, this doesn't effect regular dungeons at all. This is about savage. And none of this adds difficulty. One just increases enemy hp, and the others just add annoyances.

[Ath192]

Uhh, this doesn't effect regular dungeons at all. This is about savage. And none of this adds difficulty. One just increases enemy hp, and the others just add annoyances.

Did you actually read the Original post on this thread? Especially 1 and 3?

And that's correct, my suggestions are to appease the people who do not enjoy combat, and that way, once they are taken care of with their own priorities, the dev team will be free to implement challenging combat scenarios/raids/dungeons, that do not yield different rewards but are there for people who enjoy being challenged.

What is annoying to you may be awesome design to someone else. So it is important to recognize that your own taste doesn't determine whether something is actually annoying or not. And quite frankly more things to explore in dungeons wouldn't be deemed annoying by most people I would wager, especially if it can be ignored or skipped by the uninterested folks.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Did you actually read the Original post on this thread? Especially 1 and 3?

And that's correct, my suggestions are to appease the people who do not enjoy combat, and that way, once they are taken care of with their own priorities, the dev team will be free to implement challenging combat scenarios/raids/dungeons, that do not yield different rewards but are there for people who enjoy being challenged.

What is annoying to you may be awesome design to someone else. So it is important to recognize that your own taste doesn't determine whether something is actually annoying or not. And quite frankly more things to explore in dungeons wouldn't be deemed annoying by most people I would wager, especially if it can be ignored or skipped by the uninterested folks.

OK, let me rephrase that. It would have the most impact in savage, where it would also be more annoying.

I started raiding during coil, and coil is still my favorite raid series. No other raid has measured up to it for me. The trash pulls and exploration bits aren't what made coil great. They really only added to the atmosphere, which they have used solo instances and secondary areas for now.

And your right, my taste doesn't determine the games direction. The overall taste does. And you know what everyone did? They invented ways to skip trash in raids. Sac pulls, completely ignoring them all together in t10, etc.


Savage and ultimate exist for those who want a challenge, as does solo potd and hoh

[Ath192]

OK, let me rephrase that. It would have the most impact in savage, where it would also be more annoying.

I started raiding during coil, and coil is still my favorite raid series. No other raid has measured up to it for me. The trash pulls and exploration bits aren't what made coil great. They really only added to the atmosphere, which they have used solo instances and secondary areas for now.

And your right, my taste doesn't determine the games direction. The overall taste does. And you know what everyone did? They invented ways to skip trash in raids. Sac pulls, completely ignoring them all together in t10, etc.


Savage and ultimate exist for those who want a challenge, as does solo potd and hoh

Atmosphere is huge, and you know, if it was your favorite raid series maybe they were on to something, trash pulls included, because they were weaving in a story with atmosphere and all instead of just thinking about boss fight after boss fight. The evidence, by your own words, points to the fact that your favorite raid series included elements of exploration, whereas, the other raid series did not. I can also tell you they probably went about designing coils in a different way because of said dungeon elements to it, leading to better content. ITs okay for people to sac pulls, and ignore them all together once they are on farm mode, but the first time they went in there I can probably tell you they didn't do that and they went in with a sense of awe.

Savage is kind of easy, Ultimate is about right. But they are no scapegoats to make the rest of the game a joke. So likewise, they can introduce more challenging content for those that enjoy it, while probably also creating easier modes for those that don't want to bother, seems like a win-win to me, and since rewards wouldn't change, I see no point in your argument that only seeks to limit what devs do instead of encourage more diversity.

Plenty of these posts come up almost on a weekly basis, so a good chunk of the playerbase is dissatisfied, and noone here is suggesting getting rid of casual content so I don't know what your beef is against people who want challenge outside of a few select raids.

[Caitlyn]

1) Dungeon design has become more boring with each successive expansion. I am not talking about the aesthetic or music, which has improved tenfold. I am strictly talking about the design. Whereas in ARR we had unique dungeons like Haukke Manor and Qarn, with multiple side/secret paths and mobs that had to be interrupted or prioritized quickly (ie. bees), SB and ShB dungeons have become incredibly linear with wall-to-wall pulls to each boss. While I understand that over time people would speed run dungeons in the most efficient way, the current formulaic dungeon design leads to a stale experience.

2) Raid design too has simply turned into boss arenas, with no dungeon to actually explore. The boss encounters themselves are great, but I have not felt the same sense of wonder exploring a raid, as I did in Coils. It's sad that after 8 years playing this game, nothing has topped the experience of first venturing into Icecrown Citadel in WoW.

3) 4-man dungeons and Savage raids need scaling difficulty. Savage is challenging, but since they are now designed to be cleared in initial crafting gear, they are completed rather quickly in a patch cycle, leaving very little to do for months on end. SE can take a page from Blizzard's book and introduce a scaling + system; ie. if you clear a dungeon/raid, you can then attempt a +1 version that scales enemy health/damage (eg. reverse echo), and then +2, and so on. Rewards for these challenges could include additional tomestones, titles, minions, and mounts.

4) Gear stats are very boring. Besides glamour, there is no excitement to end-game gear when it's only a slight stat improvement, and every materia meld is prioritized for Crit. I would love for more interesting materia options (new competitive sub-stats or enchant procs), set bonuses, or even a trinket slot. I understand balance is an issue. But I also don't think that should excuse SE from not even attempting to make more interesting gear options. They definitely have the creativity in them, as Bozjan has shown. We lack that carrot on a stick to keep playing end-game.

1) Yes. Dungeons are always 3 bosses with 4 trash groups in between. Better dungeons were Brayflox HM, Dzemael and Bardams Mettle. I would love to see more variety in dungeons (maybe just one boss, or 5 or bigger mob groups). But on the other hand, many players dont want to put effort during dungeon runs. Thats why we have now a wall-to-wall system. I would wish, that they would put more dungeons into the Duty Roulette: Expert. At the moment, running the same 2 dungeons gets repetitive.

2) I m okay with having Savage Raids as Boss fights. I hate trash groups in savage raids.

3) Please no. Dont you dare to suggest a + system to FFXIV with keystones and stuff... . No. Like in WoW, it will spread toxicity.

4) I wish some sub stats may scale better. Crit and DH are everywhere. But thats because stats like accuarcy are removed. A bit more variety yes. But dont make huge changes to the gear.


This FFXIV. Not WoW. It should stay FFXIV and not become your new WoW. I dont want that WoW-players now ruining this game, like they did with WoW before.

[Cebo]

2) I m okay with having Savage Raids as Boss fights. I hate trash groups in savage raids.

3) Please no. Dont you dare to suggest a + system to FFXIV with keystones and stuff... . No. Like in WoW, it will spread toxicity.

- Yeah, tbh I hate trash too . As another poster suggested though, they could at least diversify the boss arenas so they aren't all circle/squares. What if one was a tunnel that you descended, or facing a boss while you scaled a tower? Another example is the Phantom Train fight in Sigmascape. That's still one of my favorite fights, but it would've been such a unique boss if you also had to traverse the train as part of the encounter. Instead, it's just another square arena.

- I think the + system has merit, but it's the limited keys that create the toxicity. People could then challenge it for challenge's sake.

[Caitlyn]

- Yeah, tbh I hate trash too . As another poster suggested though, they could at least diversify the boss arenas so they aren't all circle/squares. What if one was a tunnel that you descended, or facing a boss while you scaled a tower? Another example is the Phantom Train fight in Sigmascape. That's still one of my favorite fights, but it would've been such a unique boss if you also had to traverse the train as part of the encounter. Instead, it's just another square arena.

I liked that part where you have to run on Shinryus Tail in the last phase while dodging his lasers : D

[basketofseals]

What if one was a tunnel that you descended, or facing a boss while you scaled a tower? Another example is the Phantom Train fight in Sigmascape. That's still one of my favorite fights, but it would've been such a unique boss if you also had to traverse the train as part of the encounter. Instead, it's just another square arena.

Unfortunately, the FFXIV engine does NOT handle elevation difference in any way that's considered reasonable. They did more fun arenas in early coils, and that ended up with stuff like being able to cheese Twintania's dive bombs. If a boss were to try and do an AoE, it would just not hit people that are a certain distance up/down a ramp.

Although thankfully we're not at the level of spam clicking through "Target is too far above you" errors and praying you don't see "Target is too far below you."