The Sad State of Dungeons

[Jirah]

After running dungeons from ARR-SHB, from Minilvl to cheesing. It’s safe to say SHB has the worst crop of dungeons to date. Yes it’s pretty, yes it has decent music but those are more or less shallow stuff that don’t define the experience

What SHB lacks that ARR and a few HW and SB dungeons had was “Role Responsibility” run any instance as a healer and you have your typical Stress and fun factors. Tank and DPS has none. SHB has no navigation obstacles like Doma Caste or Aurum Vale or stray mobs like Hakkue Manor or Wanderers palace so the sole thing your doing is W2W (Wall-to-wall) pop a CD and GG. DPS have even less to really care about. Their aren’t any hostile attacks like Final sting to prioritize in, their isn’t any hostile trash or DPS checks like Pharos or Castrum Albania, no hazards like Darkhold or Quarn, no viral interrupts or stuns like Banish III or Old Coincounter its all the same song and dance.

What someone would say is “why not do min ilvl if you want a robust run?” And to that I say the game does NOT do enough to get players to do them. Their is no Unreal dungeons, no extra benefits or rewards, PF unless your a streamer you’ll likely won’t find a party that wants to run old dungeons in Min ilvl. Roulette are locked in to only have level syncs, once you adjust it to Min ilvl, you cant do roulettes anymore. No request to do them in any form like WT or relic stuff. I for one don’t need a incentive to wipe 12 times to Wanderers palace but most do. And haven’t said that the Min ilvl of new dungeons are still trivial.

This was a minor gripe in SB and it got a helluva lot worse in SHB with fewer dungeons and easier ones to the point of mind numbing. I’m not asking for Savage 4 man, but once you do Min ilvl run of most ARR dungeons you get the idea of what I want the difficulty to be, which is still mild imo just drastically contrast “Expert” roulettes

[SillyCrow]

I can't help but agree with you but I don't really see how you can make them more appealing. Fact is these are 95% thrash pulls with a few AoE to break up your positioning from time to time. Just a chore to get through and get to the actual content that is the story, trials and stuff.

Having extra hazards on the course just makes it annoying. Aurum Vale is kinda an exemple. If there's more chance to wipe then you spend more time in the dungeon and then you don't want to run that dungeon again unless you are forced to.

[BehindTheFlowers]

Aurum Vale is kinda an exemple. If there's more chance to wipe then you spend more time in the dungeon and then you don't want to run that dungeon again unless you are forced to.

Aurum vale was the first real test of your metal on the way to endgame. It was where people learned that it was no longer a snooze fest going for dungeons, and in the future they where asked to do more things then just sit and listen to podcasts, eat a sandwich and chat with their friends on Discord, while tanking a dungeon.
The cyclops was the great boss where you suddenly had to keep your eyes open and learn the signals he send you. Something that till now had been spoon fed to players by the developers. Now they threw you for the wolves by letting you have to use the top floor of your body and actually do a bit of thinking.
On top of that it was a dungeon you easily could avoid. Just don't unlock it and you where golden.

Personally I like to see there is a bit more bite to it in the dungeons, then just having to spend 20 minutes being bored for a few tomes. I rather spend my 20 minutes being on my toes and in the end be rewarded with the feeling that it was a job well done. Each party pulled their part off just right and we made it through in the end.

So this go out to all the dungeon devs.
Please, bring back Aurum Vale to its state before telegraphed attacks and nerfed bosses. And when you create dungeons in the future. Be creative, do things out of the norm, and try out new stuff. Like the boss in the lvl 65 dungeon where you have to position yourself right to pass.
It is things like the old Aurum Vale and that last mentioned dungeon that makes them fun. The rest just turn in to one same grey mass of something with a titel of dungeon no one really bother to remember. So bring in some sas, bring in some challenge, don't fear to be creative and challenge the players. The victories are sweeter when its been a good fight with a bit of a challenge to the player.

[ReynTime]

Aurum vale was the first real test of your metal on the way to endgame. It was where people learned that it was no longer a snooze fest going for dungeons, and in the future they where asked to do more things then just sit and listen to podcasts, eat a sandwich and chat with their friends on Discord, while tanking a dungeon.
The cyclops was the great boss where you suddenly had to keep your eyes open and learn the signals he send you. Something that till now had been spoon fed to players by the developers. Now they threw you for the wolves by letting you have to use the top floor of your body and actually do a bit of thinking.
On top of that it was a dungeon you easily could avoid. Just don't unlock it and you where golden.

Personally I like to see there is a bit more bite to it in the dungeons, then just having to spend 20 minutes being bored for a few tomes. I rather spend my 20 minutes being on my toes and in the end be rewarded with the feeling that it was a job well done. Each party pulled their part off just right and we made it through in the end.

So this go out to all the dungeon devs.
Please, bring back Aurum Vale to its state before telegraphed attacks and nerfed bosses. And when you create dungeons in the future. Be creative, do things out of the norm, and try out new stuff. Like the boss in the lvl 65 dungeon where you have to position yourself right to pass.
It is things like the old Aurum Vale and that last mentioned dungeon that makes them fun. The rest just turn in to one same grey mass of something with a titel of dungeon no one really bother to remember. So bring in some sas, bring in some challenge, don't fear to be creative and challenge the players. The victories are sweeter when its been a good fight with a bit of a challenge to the player.

Dungeons like AV are the minimum I wish they'd do with optional 4 or 8 man dungeon challenges. IMHO they should either be fixed-party only or have separate roulette categories so whiny players who like netflix'able content can just not run them.

[Uvi_AUT]

Dungeons like AV are the minimum I wish they'd do with optional 4 or 8 man dungeon challenges. IMHO they should either be fixed-party only or have separate roulette categories so whiny players who like netflix'able content can just not run them.

I dont know that particular dungeon, but if its one you must do in order to advance the story, then no. If its an optional dungeon, then I would have no problem with it being hard.

[ssunny2008]

I dont know that particular dungeon, but if its one you must do in order to advance the story, then no. If its an optional dungeon, then I would have no problem with it being hard.

It´s one thing to have dungeons as a MSQ, but it´s another if they´re completely braindead. Of course ppl should enjoy the main story, but it doesn´t help anyone if you just run straight through the dungeon and spam aoe into a big pull. The core aspect "dungeon" fails completely in this game.

Other games did a way better job. Dungeons are a bit more challenging, but you get way better loot to prepare yourself for what is coming next. In some games they´re only optional, but promise rare items. Others do even have harder versions of the original ones to prepare yourself for raids.
But dungeons in FF14 has become a timewaste. I don´t need to run from an invisible wall to another, just to progress in the main story. It´s even a waste of time and efford from the devs. Building up beautiful environments noone will take care for unless you´ll get matched via daily roulette once again in those dungeons. SHB dungeons are even the worst i´ve ever seen in any MMORPG. Battle for Norvrandt ftw!
They´re just boring and don´t bring anything to the player. Then those players start to raid, suck and cry "too hard, pls nerf"... no wonder if you just played low budget content before and relied on the simplified classes and mechs.

(And tbh... i´ve never played any other MMO where loot has become so useless. I can run with my level 70 gear easily to level 80. A dungeon might takes 2 minutes longer because i miss stats for DPS, but that´s all. Even in old Roulette - Raids with an Alt i can sit on 20k max HP while the rest of the party has 40k+. I´ll still survive and do my job. It´s ridiculous.)

[Arohk]

I recently thought about that as well, modern dungeons are very much streamlined, there are no items you need to pick up or different paths to take to open a gate or anything, only the bosses got a few more mechanics.

If you think Aurum Vale is a bad dungeon, i think the opposite, while the toxic green yellowish tone is realy off-putting, it is one of the very few dungeons with an "open" area where you have a choice how to aproach it.

[Payadopa]

The fact that we call them trash mobs says a lot. I would give my right arm for a min ilvl roulette. The sheer glee I have as a healer when someone makes me actually hear is great. And like MSQ roulette it's optional so all Netflix WoL don't need to bother.

I'm so tired of the excuse that difficult dungeons will get annoying. BORING DUNGEONS ARE ANNOYING. lol I don't play games to be bored.

[ItMe]

The fact that we call them trash mobs says a lot.

I wonder where the term originates from...
It def predates FF14 and is just being repurposed here to describe everything that's not a boss in dungeons and alliance raids. Ive even heard bosses that don't drop chests referred to as trash mobs.
But you're absolutely right. The term we choose to use is pretty telling...

[Absurdity]

I mean if you really think about it then you should call the dungeon bosses "trash mobs" because they are usually the least dangerous thing in the entire dungeon...unless you only do single pulls.