Can we take action against Bard Macro Player yet?

[Stormfur]

It's not about "elitism". I stand by the fact that it's rather soul crushing and not that all fun wanting to learn how to use the system if there is a way to "cheat" it by automation.

Hi OP! Fellow musician here who understands where you're coming from, even if I don't necessarily agree. It can be disappointing when you know that you're playing a song, and then someone just randomly blows past you, eating up all the "accolades" for not having the actual talent (whether they want it and cannot get it is neither here nor there). I understand both sides of the concern, really -- the artist who sees those with less or no talent using a program to play for them vs. the person who cannot play and sees his character as an extension of the talents he wish he could have. One sees it as unfair, the other sees it as harmless.

Unfortunately, if it can be automated, it will be and that causes many people (who don't care as much as you do), to take the easy way out. Just look at any other competitive system in the game. Remember the Firmament crafting and gathering challenges? Some people stayed up for hours barely eating or drinking or sleeping, others used bots to gather inhuman amounts of stuff. The ones who automate will never care that you authentically put in hours of practice / hours of crafting / whatever. To them, the ends justify the means.

To you I'd say, learn the system if you want to, for your own personal enjoyment. Play your heart out if you want to. Those who stop to listen will hear the difference and although not everyone will appreciate your skill, those that understand, will.

[Violet_Galaxy]

I get it, some people aren't musically talented enough, some just want to play songs, and I feel that is fine if you are just playing for your friends and such.

But what bothers me is when you pretend you ARE playing songs and acting as if you are so great because you let a third party tool play it for you.

It's really annoying walking into towns and just hearing it sound like people just throw midi keyboards down a flight of stairs.

There are people, such as myself, who actually practice playing these songs, and we get immediately overshadowed by people who just press play on a program. There is no competition, we lose because it's impossible for us to play songs at a normal place without either conforming to third party software ourselves, or hooking up an actual midi keyboard (which I would be more okay with!).

I think the bard macro playing has gotten way out of hand. It's really annoying and off putting.


Playing songs is one of my favorite things to do in FFXIV, I practice for hours every single day, and now I have to turn off performance completely because it just isn't fun anymore trying to play music for people, but getting immediately decimated by someone who can press play, make a sandwich and come back without putting any effort into learning any song what so ever.

Fantastic. Guess what? Your average passerby isn't going to care about this. They're going to pass by, hear a familiar tune, /cheer, /dance /clap and go on about their day. Play your music and mind your business. The last thing we want is for SE to actually start policing this and/or scrapping this altogether.

[Skivvy]

It's amusing seeing this being hashed out in XIV now. GW2 has a pretty similar music system to XIV, and there have been plenty of threads with the same complaints. "It takes away from those who play manually" is also one of the main complaints they have. I really don't see how this is the case. You should be able to take pride and enjoyment in your skill regardless if Joe Shmoe over on the other end of Limsa putting out tunes with his program. The only thing they're possibly doing is stealing away potential viewers for your own performance.

Anet (GW2 dev) has come out and clearly stated that they are OK with the macro/third party use for music playing. Would be nice if SE would come out with a similiar statement.

[Vidu]

This isn't about jealousy, it's about stating the issue that it seems very unfair for someone to practice for hours to actually learn how to play, then for someone to come up to you and just play the same song, or another 1000 times better than you ever could because of a third party software.

It's not about "elitism". I stand by the fact that it's rather soul crushing and not that all fun wanting to learn how to use the system if there is a way to "cheat" it by automation.

Just my personal opinion, but I never understood this way of thinking and believe that everyone would live a happier life in general if they stopped looking so much at what others have/do and appericiate the things they have/can do instead.
Do things that give you joy by doing them (special in a game), not things that only give you joy because you get attention or to impress other people.

Play music and learn the songs because thats something you want to do - make the way your goal. Then it wont bother you if other people reach the same outcome. The feeling of accomplishment shouldnt be something that someone can take away from you, so dont let them take it away. Stop looking at others, focus on yourself, see how much you improved, how much better your performance has gotten...

...sorry, I started to ramble a bit here, dishing out general life-advice that might not even be welcome. Bottomline: Dont let things that other people hurt what you enjoy - but not by "attacking" them or trying to take away things from them and rather by focussing on the fun you have during the (learning) process. No one can take that away from you - assuming its even fun to you... and if it isnt... do something that is?

[Awha]

10 out of 10 would read again.

Well played OP. That I just echo what others have said try not to put so much value of your actions around praise of others.

I will say this maybe invest in a midi if it means that much to you to sound more professional.

[Olivia0x25]

Hi OP! Fellow musician here who understands where you're coming from, even if I don't necessarily agree. It can be disappointing when you know that you're playing a song, and then someone just randomly blows past you, eating up all the "accolades" for not having the actual talent (whether they want it and cannot get it is neither here nor there). I understand both sides of the concern, really -- the artist who sees those with less or no talent using a program to play for them vs. the person who cannot play and sees his character as an extension of the talents he wish he could have. One sees it as unfair, the other sees it as harmless.

Unfortunately, if it can be automated, it will be and that causes many people (who don't care as much as you do), to take the easy way out. Just look at any other competitive system in the game. Remember the Firmament crafting and gathering challenges? Some people stayed up for hours barely eating or drinking or sleeping, others used bots to gather inhuman amounts of stuff. The ones who automate will never care that you authentically put in hours of practice / hours of crafting / whatever. To them, the ends justify the means.

To you I'd say, learn the system if you want to, for your own personal enjoyment. Play your heart out if you want to. Those who stop to listen will hear the difference and although not everyone will appreciate your skill, those that understand, will.

Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it. I know there are others out there too. When I made this thread, there are others in-game who agreed and couldn't stand it, we spent the next few hours listening to each other play songs and trying to learn new ones and became friends.

I'm still going to practice, nothing is going to stop that. It's one of my main enjoyments in FFXIV.

[MirielleLavandre]

Olivia:

People like me who have no musical gifts whatsoever, and may use a program like that to give my avatar in a fantasy game an ability I will never know in my entire life. One I have dreamt of having almost.forever.

but my greatest wish, my fondest dream, was to be on stage with a musical instrument and let the music speak for my heart and soul. You could put the best midi keyboard in front of me and Id never know how to make that music.

That, I cannot and will never know.

If, by some small means, others can attain, that small dream inside a video game, then I see no harm in it.

I'm classically trained in piano and have practiced thousands of hours, yet Vel's post is, to my mind, more genuinely authentic and a testament about what true love of music is than the OP's idea of it.

Music exists to transcend words and languages, since it is understood and loved by humanity as a whole. I can write a piece in a minor chord, using diminished thirds and all just to make it uber sad, and someone/anyone will understand the feeling I'm trying to convey, no matter where in the world they are and what language they speak. Just because Olga Scheps can play Ballade 1 better than I ever could doesn't mean I don't want people exposed to Chopin or to hear his music. In fact, I'd welcome someone who could play this music better than I could to play it for more and more people so that they can, perhaps, grow to love it as much as I do. This wouldn't diminish me or my own talent in the least, but rather uplift the actual music itself.

Unless you compose (as I sometimes do), we are all (musicians and non-musicians alike) just copying the work of another, although perhaps with our own lil interpretations at times. Let us just all love music in whatever form and from whatever source it comes from for what it is - a way to communicate the feelings humanity shares without words ^^

[Vahlnir]

I've seen it all now. Bard Performance Elitists.

A tale as old as the human race itself. I'm guessing our earliest ancestors would fist fight over who could grunt and drum on a hollow log better.

[Izar_Chillen]

Music exists to transcend words and languages, since it is understood and loved by humanity as a whole.

As Stephen Spielberg has often said, his major hit films were successful because of their scores.


I have favourite films and often re-watch them because the music accompanying the film makes it very special for me. Films such as Interstella , Inception , Shawshank Redemption and Jaws with many more I could list off.

Heck I even like box office/film critics "flops" because I enjoy the score eg: Oblivion starring Tom Cruise



There has been some wonderful shorts Ive loved as they were featured in a youtube channel or a tv show such as Netflix's AFterlife by Ricky Gervais

Dave Thomas Junior - Silence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bmz...ist=LL&index=9


or a lovelly piece that was used in aViva La Dirt League - Epic NPC man video

Uninvited · Alfie-Jay Winters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7mk99no24I

Music is the language of the human soul without borders.

[Fawkes]

At that point, you are not the performer, but a MP3 player at that point. Would you go to a concert in real life and be okay with a singer not really singing a song? Or if an orchestra wasn't really playing their instruments but letting some software play it for them while pretending they are? Probably not. I know it's a bit different via FFXIV, but that, for me, means a lot.

That's basically what DJing is, and yes tons of people go to watch a guy in a helmet press play on an mp3.