Delubrum Reginae is the best raid you've designed... BUT...

[TeraRamis]

...but it's the worst up-front experience I've ever had with a below-extreme content in this game. I have come to really appreciate and enjoy the mechanics of the raid - but I probably died 10 times on that first run. And this is because it's perhaps the worst content SE has ever added to the game when it comes to teaching mechanics.

As someone who mostly does PUGed raids, I'm pretty accustomed to bosses following a fairly strict, 2-step routine:

1) demonstrate abilities,
2) complicate/stack/increase haste of said abilities.

DR doesn't do that well at all. Some of the abilities during some of the fights are sort of telegraphed. But a lot of these mechanics - probably even most - are just something you have to pick up on. A good example of this is the fire/ice arrow "maze" on the fifth encounter. Just looking at it the first time, I had absolutely no idea what was going on (I'd read a strat before entering, but wasn't clear on exactly what I was supposed to be doing). Now, is it fun once you learn it? Absolutely. But the 'first contact' experience feels... I dunno... dirty to me; unclean; messy; or, to quote the Griffin: SLOPPAY.

Look, I know nobody wants to rehash what's the better part of year-old content at this juncture, and I think that DR is really, really an excellent experience once you have it on lock. But... I don't know that it's really suitable for casual play. The initial takeaway is that it feels somewhere between savage and EX (no, it's not that hard once you learn it, but the learning curve makes it feel like that the initial few times). And, honestly, after running into that buzzsaw the first time, I just didn't want to do it again. It made me feel inept. And I don't think that's an emotion that a lot of casual FFXIV players are accustomed to experiencing when it comes to PUGed content. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd wager that a lot of them tried it once and never went back. I almost did - I'm not ashamed to admit it; I was embarrassed and didn't want to try again.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, DR turned out to be fun, but considering it within the context of the rest of the content of the game for the majority of the casual crowd, it's nightmarish to begin with. And first impressions are such a big deal - especially when the majority of us have been waged on a strict diet of pretty soft encounters. This isn't a plea for SE to nerf the raid or something like that... just maybe keep in mind moving forward that this isn't what people are used to seeing in your product.

[Vahlnir]

but I probably died 10 times on that first run. And this is because it's perhaps the worst content SE has ever added to the game when it comes to teaching mechanics.

Did you ask anyone how they worked? If you don't want to do that then figure them out yourself. If you don't want that either you can always read or watch a guide. I died a lot in my first few runs too (probably more than you) but eventually I picked up on these things. In my opinion they aren't hard to deal with once you know what's what. I'm a casual player by just about every standard. It's fine as is on this front. They teach you the mechanics through trial and error. Not everything needs to be displayed in big, bold letters on a flashing neon sign which reads "OMG STAND HERE NOW!" (The game already does that by the way in most parts of the game). There is nothing wrong with having to use one's brain a bit. I'd argue that it is actually quite healthy. lol

[Arillyn]

I enjoyed it because I did have to pay attention to the mechanics and figure out how they all worked. I felt most of them were pretty self-explanatory, though I had to run DR a few times in the beginning to get all the mechanics down, but I personally enjoyed doing that.

[TeraRamis]

Did you ask anyone how they worked? If you don't want to do that then figure them out yourself. If you don't want that either you can always read or watch a guide. I died a lot in my first few runs too (probably more than you) but eventually I picked up on these things. In my opinion they aren't hard to deal with once you know what's what. I'm a casual player by just about every standard. It's fine as is on this front. They teach you the mechanics through trial and error. Not everything needs to be displayed in big, bold letters on a flashing neon sign which reads "OMG STAND HERE NOW!" (The game already does that by the way in most parts of the game). There is nothing wrong with having to use one's brain a bit. I'd argue that it is actually quite healthy. lol

Nobody has talked or so much as paused in any of the runs I've been in. Like I said in the OP, I read up on the strats, but it was a far cry from seeing them. I imagine most people don't even do that much the first time.

[Vahlnir]

Nobody has talked or so much as paused in any of the runs I've been in. Like I said in the OP, I read up on the strats, but it was a far cry from seeing them. I imagine most people don't even do that much the first time.

Eh, I just don't like that you are selling this content short just because you died a few times. Seems more like a knee-jerk reaction than anything. It's really not that bad. Long, sure, but not a bad raid in general. The difficulty level is probably ever so slightly harder than your average 24 man alliance raid which says everything you need to know.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Eh, I just don't like that you are selling this content short just because you died a few times. Seems more like a knee-jerk reaction than anything. It's really not that bad. Long, sure, but not a bad raid in general. The difficulty level is probably ever so slightly harder than your average 24 man alliance raid which says everything you need to know.

Pretty sure most 24mans do the same. Thunder God certainly didn't teach mechanics ahead of time.

[TeraRamis]

Eh, I just don't like that you are selling this content short just because you died a few times. Seems more like a knee-jerk reaction than anything. It's really not that bad. Long, sure, but not a bad raid in general. The difficulty level is probably ever so slightly harder than your average 24 man alliance raid which says everything you need to know.

Wait, the OP was full of praise (thus the title 'Delebrum Reginae is the best raid you've designed'). I like the content. What I'm saying about said content is that it is not intuitive, and doesn't do a particularly good job teaching. Once-learned, I honestly think it's a far more enjoyable clear than any of the Nier raids by a long shot.

As a mostly-casual player, I am accustomed to spoon-feeding. DR isn't handled that way. It's very enjoyable once learned, but the slope is very steep.

Also, to the people who said 'I ran down the channels the first time on the maze attack' - I've seen like 5 other people do that now, so it's not uncommon. The setup for that attack may take a long time to develop, but it's definitely not clear that what you're looking for is "arrow/mouse in maze that you need to get hit by to save your life." Nothing about that sequence is logical - not the visual; not the getting hit by it. It's fun - it's a lot of fun. It's not obvious in the slightest.

[Vahlnir]

Wait, the OP was full of praise (thus the title 'Delebrum Reginae is the best raid you've designed'). I like the content. What I'm saying about said content is that it is not intuitive, and doesn't do a particularly good job teaching. Once-learned, I honestly think it's a far more enjoyable clear than any of the Nier raids by a long shot.

As a mostly-casual player, I am accustomed to spoon-feeding. DR isn't handled that way. It's very enjoyable once learned, but the slope is very steep.

Also, to the people who said 'I ran down the channels the first time on the maze attack' - I've seen like 5 other people do that now, so it's not uncommon. The setup for that attack may take a long time to develop, but it's definitely not clear that what you're looking for is "arrow/mouse in maze that you need to get hit by to save your life." Nothing about that sequence is logical - not the visual; not the getting hit by it. It's fun - it's a lot of fun. It's not obvious in the slightest.

Oh, I never said you didn't enjoy it. I know you said that you did. But again, you are just selling it a bit short in this regard and I don't think that it is a fair and objective opinion. I was talking about the mechanics of the place, much like you were. Objectively, the mechanics aren't hard to learn. If you were able to learn these mechanics (and now enjoy them) then everything is fine as is. If you and many others weren't then I'd see the issue. I haven't seen this at all and I've been running it pretty regularly since day one. Apparently things were obvious enough! On average it probably takes most people a few tries to learn things in every piece of content in the game. Seems like a pointless complaint to make in the end.

[Mikey_R]

Also, to the people who said 'I ran down the channels the first time on the maze attack' - I've seen like 5 other people do that now, so it's not uncommon. The setup for that attack may take a long time to develop, but it's definitely not clear that what you're looking for is "arrow/mouse in maze that you need to get hit by to save your life." Nothing about that sequence is logical - not the visual; not the getting hit by it. It's fun - it's a lot of fun. It's not obvious in the slightest.

For me personally, I intuitively knew what was going to happen. Doesn't mean I done the mechanic right the first time, but I knew what to do. I think the difference here is down to experience. The setup is similar to older games where you have to 'sort' objects that fall down ropes or tubes where they always take the perpendicular path as they pass them. The same setup has also appeared in newer games as minigames or a puzzle to solve. So, if you have never seen this type of game before, you are essentially learning something new, if you have seen it, you are just going by past experience to help.

[FoxyAreku]

This is kind of a reason why I wish raids in this game had trash mobs, and the ones that do have trash would use them appropriately to teach what is coming, you could do neat things like have the trash use a smaller version of the upcoming boss' mechanics so you know what to look for when you get to the boss, and it would probably help a lot.