My two requests for PLD in Endwalker

[Mithron]

1. Make Clemancy an OGCD that costs 50 Oath gauge. Lower potency as needed.

2. Give PLD a slow cast raise that can be cast in battle. Seeing as they do not have Swiftcast, it should remain a slow cast.

PLDs have classically been known for their minor white magic utility in older FFs such as FF1, FF3 (Mystic Knights in NES, Knights in later versions), and FF4. In particular, having access to actually usable heals and a raise is thematic to the job and missing for PLDs currently.

What do you think?

[ItMe]

I think, unfortunately, it might be a little close to release for them to consider adding anything.
They're probably working on balancing raids right now.

As for my takes on the ideas: I'm not sure #1 is a good idea... considering how damage centric this game is if you give us the option to use our meter for a defensive move OR an offensive move, it's tough to find situations where the defensive move is the "right pick." That's why DRK's MP defensive move has to at least be DPS neutral. That's also why the took energy drain away from SCH to try and force healers to use their resources to heal instead of squeeze in more DPS.

[Mithron]

I think, unfortunately, it might be a little close to release for them to consider adding anything.
They're probably working on balancing raids right now.

As for my takes on the ideas: I'm not sure #1 is a good idea... considering how damage centric this game is if you give us the option to use our meter for a defensive move OR an offensive move, it's tough to find situations where the defensive move is the "right pick." That's why DRK's MP defensive move has to at least be DPS neutral. That's also why the took energy drain away from SCH to try and force healers to use their resources to heal instead of squeeze in more DPS.

Well, look at how much WAR changed in 4.3 with the Byakko patch. Even if this kind of change can't be done before the release of EW, maybe it could happen eventually. I just want to plant the seed.

While having the Oath gauge be used somehow offensively sounds like a good idea, I also think keeping it as a strictly utility/defensive tool is good too because it does fit thematically for PLD. I don't think SE has released any information on how it would be used offensively, have they? The problem with Clemancy now is exactly as you described: PLDs have to use every GCD and all MP towards offensive purposes, leaving no room to use it or face a massive DPS loss. Enabling Clemancy as an OGCD would resolve, and currently, PLDs are the only tank that cannot self heal without losing DPS.

[Lyth]

I agree with moving Clemency to the Oath bar. 50 gauge is probably too much, as it doesn't have the same defensive value as Sheltron. I would set it at 20. As for the oGCD status, I'd just set it so that you gain a swiftcast proc on a successful block every 20-30 seconds. If it's an emergency you can chain cast it, but otherwise you should get healing instant casts that you can weave in every so often. I think that's reasonable.

Giving raise abilities to tanks should be avoided at all costs. There are already way too many jobs with easy raise potential. As it is, I very much want to see a hard cap be placed on the number of battle raises that can be used per team per fight, especially in harder difficulty settings. 3 carts and you're out. I wouldn't mind seeing PLD have an out of combat raise for flavor, but people in this game hate flavor abilities with a passion and would inevitably start pushing boundaries.
5 months later: "My raise ability is only usable outside of combat and is a waste of hotbar space, please make this a combat raise."
10 months later: "My slow cast combat raise is a dps loss, please make it instant cast."
15 months later: "Players die after my instant cast combat raise with unlimited uses because they raise during a mechanic, please make it equivalent to Healer LB3."
Best to kill this idea with fire.

[Vyrerus]

Remember when PLD had out of combat Raise from cross class skills? Pepperidge Farm remembahs...

That said, moving Clemency to the Oath Gauge would be insane without a potency reduction, especially at 20 gauge. The HP it restores at 1200 potency/600 on self, 1200 on target is far more valuable than increasing block rate to 100% unless you absolutely need those blocks.

Like if you did that, PLDs would default to being main tank, since they could just Cure II x 2 themselves as an oGCD every 4 auto attacks... roughly every 9 seconds. Ludicrous. Hell, you could roll double PLD comp, and just have the PLDs take care of all tank damage, letting the healers comfortably settle all raidwides and raidwides only. Phew. Not a good idea. With a higher oath cost though, it'd be less efficient at healing than it currently is, though far more useable in all situations without being broken.

[Marxam]

1. Make Clemancy an OGCD that costs 50 Oath gauge. Lower potency as needed.

2. Give PLD a slow cast raise that can be cast in battle. Seeing as they do not have Swiftcast, it should remain a slow cast.

PLDs have classically been known for their minor white magic utility in older FFs such as FF1, FF3 (Mystic Knights in NES, Knights in later versions), and FF4. In particular, having access to actually usable heals and a raise is thematic to the job and missing for PLDs currently.

What do you think?

Making Clemency and ogcd will make into an offensive cd. The only reason why Clemency is a defensive utility is because you have to give up a gcd, preferably in requiescat window, to cast a heal instead of a weaponskill and it also breaks combos. So there is some through put into it but the heals you get are very strong, comparable to a WAR using aoes and NF. It just becomes a gauge dump and will almost always be picked over shelltron, similar to how WAR works because a tank that can keep itself alive longer without heals means healers can keep dpsing or raising a dead member without worry. Clemency is fine as is. Maybe needs a nerf but imo giving up a gcd for a Clemency that heals 50% of your HP is worth it imo.

PLD or any tanks getting a raise outside of "eureka" content will never happen. PLD had a raise as a cc from CNJ back in the day (including protect and stoneskin) but it was used outside of battle and made the PLD feel like a "holy knight" before clemency was added but regardless, it was a niche option the open world but even I only used it a few times. Mainly when odin spawns and helped the healers raise people around me. Putting Lost Sacrifice as a tank role skill might make things interesting as a tank battle raise but then they would have to balance all content around that and I doubt they would want to put that much work into when Eureka and Bozja already gives you the option to make tanks into healers.

If anything needs to be change, is that Cover needs to be turned into a tank role because the potential for it being used to great effect is unlimited. Imagine healers getting targeted with a stack maker and the tanks just cover them and invul thus negating any dps missing positionals or leaving leylines, etc from having to stack.

[Lyth]

...

That's why it shouldn't be oGCD by default. You can use it as an oGCD on a block proc, but that's time gated, the same way that Equilibrium is. If you want to cast it on demand, it has a cast time cost, which is a major deterrent in itself. You can't even get the healers to hardcast Cure 2, let alone a tank. Even now, you can chain cast Clemency if you really want, but it's going to cost you time and dps.

It's also going to reduce your access to other utility moves that you may want to use. One of the weaknesses of the gauge system is that there's really no trade-offs attached. There needs to be more gauge costing abilities to keep the system interesting.

[Duskane]

no raise
if anything RDM and SMN should not be allowed to be used in combat

[Vyrerus]

Making Clemency and ogcd will make into an offensive cd. The only reason why Clemency is a defensive utility is because you have to give up a gcd, preferably in requiescat window, to cast a heal instead of a weaponskill and it also breaks combos. So there is some through put into it but the heals you get are very strong, comparable to a WAR using aoes and NF. It just becomes a gauge dump and will almost always be picked over shelltron, similar to how WAR works because a tank that can keep itself alive longer without heals means healers can keep dpsing or raising a dead member without worry. Clemency is fine as is. Maybe needs a nerf but imo giving up a gcd for a Clemency that heals 50% of your HP is worth it imo.

PLD or any tanks getting a raise outside of "eureka" content will never happen. PLD had a raise as a cc from CNJ back in the day (including protect and stoneskin) but it was used outside of battle and made the PLD feel like a "holy knight" before clemency was added but regardless, it was a niche option the open world but even I only used it a few times. Mainly when odin spawns and helped the healers raise people around me. Putting Lost Sacrifice as a tank role skill might make things interesting as a tank battle raise but then they would have to balance all content around that and I doubt they would want to put that much work into when Eureka and Bozja already gives you the option to make tanks into healers.

If anything needs to be change, is that Cover needs to be turned into a tank role because the potential for it being used to great effect is unlimited. Imagine healers getting targeted with a stack maker and the tanks just cover them and invul thus negating any dps missing positionals or leaving leylines, etc from having to stack.

Cover doesn't work like that. If you use Hallowed Ground and then Cover someone, you take the damage relative to whatever mitigation they had at the time minus your defense. You won't take damage from damage that hits you directly, but damage from a covered person circumvents immunity making it a non-option.

Of course, in the past, at least in Extreme content, tanks have had enough raw HP that they can eat group stacks by themselves. Might not hold after the stat squish, but if you threw an Intervention on the Healer, and the tank was shielded, they may be able to cover the group stack, eat it solo, and still live.

[Garnix]

Personally what I want the most for PLD is for Shield Swap to come back and replace Shield Bash.

Regarding white magic, I am already glad they started adding damaging magic since Stormblood to be fair.

I agree that something needs to be done for Clemency. Making it oGCD is part of the solution probably, but not the shield oath.
You most likely will still never use it and would keep shielding instead. And it would not be as good for solo play either.

Honestly, I think that the Paladin job gauge is one of the most lackluster of all the job gauges.
Just add one more resource to it that would be dedicated to healing abilities or something like that.