How fitting

[Axxion]

We've got a tank with an actual physical barrier (a shield) and another with the best magic barrier (The Blackest Night), but somehow the tank that was once entirely themed around damage->self-healing (2011-2014), and still remains the tank most based around damage->self-healing, should lose its damage->self-healing and become a barrier tank despite having the least barrier theme short of GNB?

You seem more than happy to piss on XIV's own precedent for an altogether separate game, XI. But, maybe, just maybe, people actually play XIV for XIV, and have liked XIV iterations of Warrior? Or will we next be removing Reaper to hand DRK its scythe?

be carefully they are a willy one

[ninninin]

There is no physical barrier and magical barrier. Barrier = Extra HP Bar
Having the least barrier? Thrill=Barrier, Shake=Barrier. The tank that start with Barrier is WAR.
DRK=TBN only. And what's TBN? *A glorified Thrill of Battle* with a way to convert/store mp strap to it.

And NO, XIV is not different game. You just want to treat it that way so you can have convenient excuse to ignore all lore and have any ability/trait you desired. Square Enix and XIV used the loyalty of FF fan to reach this day but betray the fan by follow one cocky man. Yes I have problem with this guy, 8 years has passed and some job gameplay remain suck. In live letter at the beginning of shadbowbringers the very first word that came out of his mouth was "Shadowbringers was a big success!!!". Holy Sh- many job is in terrible state and all he care about is the number of the player. Nin gameplay is horrible,Smn make player hurt their wrist, Rdm have a problem with mp and aoe rotation when it shouldn't, MCH was stressed by double weave, Sam is heavily burdened by double casting time. Ast and Sch don't have enough healing power, DRK have trouble with the party that doesn't have WHM. He doesn't apology nor talk about about his failure at all.

Job's changes have to go through his permission before it could get in the patch and yet he waited 7 years to start playing monk to understand it. Just look at the way he work. He won't hire a director, instead he hold the authority of both producer and director position by himself. He just want to have all the authority but he don't want the responsibility. Maybe in next decade he would start playing tank and healer. Warrior Clone have to happen and stay like that because he was obsessed with berserk manga https://www.pcgamer.com/final-fantas...-unfathomable/ . All this time DRK player have paid the money only to fulfill this guy dream to copy berserk manga. He knew long ago how living dead suck but he refused to change it even when a streamer ask him to change it directly. Our [not your] suffering about Living Dead from all these years came from how stuck up this guy is. Maybe half of us would perish by covid before DRK would be a real Dark Knight that isn't just Dark Knight in name. Oh pardon me I forgot we real DRK player who knew what real DRK is doesn't exist. To you DRK=HW. Haste, Mp slave. clipping animation like mad is the real Dark Knight. [pff HW DRK is just edgy berserker beta]

You can't make all tank be unique by have them share the theme because when the time passed it will overlap and identity crisis will return. Warrior start with max hp manipulation/extra hp bar so make this WAR theme. TBN is tied to SB lore only in name Barrier have nothing to do with DRK. It never been Dark Knight theme and will continue to not be in a FF game that doesn't have WoW influence/ a guy who influence by it. XIV would remain fake Final Fantasy as long as it has wow influence on the job. Do you ever have the idea that DRK doesn't only have life drain in XI before talking to me?

DRK is the opposite of Holy Knight that's why it have debuff/life drain instead of healing self or heal the other/blessing. When life drain was taken from it we see how it weakened. When debuff was made available to every tank we saw how it no longer able to remain unique. Living Dead might be manageable if DRK's life drain is strong but nah let just get obsessed over modified thirll of battle and mistaken it as our identity.

WAR/Berserker used to have haste/proc attack/counter. But it no longer have those ferocity that's one reason why it feel slow when it supposed to have a aggressive/fast/active game play. Vengeance is the remaining track that show how messed up and indecisive XIV is when it come to job identity.

DRK and WAR have a problem because they shared dark knight and berserker trait far too long and it will continue until these 2 jobs return to their origin.

[NeoDivinity]

yo winning about damage on the Tank Role when the difference between them is less then 1k is kinda cringe, even more when WAR is almost Meta with his Invul low cooldown and lets not forget that for those that do not step on Savage/Ultimates that Warrior is by far the best Tank do to Dungeons with his regen and AoE abilites.

Classes changes every expansion, every Job lost something from its kit, what do you want back?
The No Mercy that stays untouched untill the final phase of the boss.
The old version of Fell Cleave where u had to build Abandon stacks.
The Pacification after Berserk?

WAR is the most fun its even been to play, and easy to introduce players to the tank role, even more than PLD i would say.

I do miss having a DoT to keep the damage up when i need to disconnect or maybe removing the gauge cost from the gap close but besides that WAR only got QoL changes over the years.

The Damage output difference is minimal and i never heard about someone being kicked or denied in a group because "Oh he plays X tank and this one hits less than Y tank".

[Jandor]

Our iconic theme was top tier damage and self sustain through sheer brutality.

Damage isn't a theme, you may as well just say your theme was being #1 on the tank tier list.

Your theme was being an angry beserker with a giant HP pool.

[Shurrikhan]

And what's TBN? *A glorified Thrill of Battle* with a way to convert/store mp strap to it.

The Blackest Night

• 15-second CD.
• Lasts up to 7 seconds.
• Increases eHP by 25%.
• Usable on others.
• Requires a margin of resource be reserved for it.
• Refunds its resource cost if and only if it is fully consumed within 7 seconds.

Thrill of Battle

• 90-second CD
• Lasts 20 seconds.
• Increases eHP by 20%.

They have not a thing in common except that they both increase eHP and have durations.

XIV is not different game.

Yes. It is. XI is over there, still running. If you want something from XI, then show what parts of its choices would necessarily be better than what we have here, instead of supplanting anything and everything in bulk simply because you don't like the last 10 years of identity this game has given to a particular XIV job.

By all means, shit on Yoshi-P's handling of jobs. I'm not about to defend that. But don't pretend that his shortfalls suddenly makes XI's job concept perfect, let alone transferrable to a very different game.

I've played XI WAR. I prefer 5.x Warrior even though it's far worse to me than 4.1 or even 3.x. I've played around on XI DRK, albeit only up to level 77. I prefer 5.x's, even though I again preferred 4.3 or 3.x's. If you want XI transplanted over whatever anyone has enjoyed about an XIV job, again, XI is still live, right over there.

[Shurrikhan]

Onslaught which is a dmg down unless its used during inner Release

Prior to Enhanced Infuriation, its actually a very faint dps increase, iirc. Even after, it's a smaller dps loss than its closest analog, Gyoten (another 10s CD gauge-spending gap-closer). That also means you have an actual gap-closer, whereas Plunge is to be spent, both charges, inside raid buff (i.e., Trick Attack) windows.

Inner Release = Delirium
Fell Cleave = Blood spiller
Decimate = Quietus

Inner Release, in its current functionality now cloned onto Delirium, predated that functionality on Delirium. Fell Cleave predated Bloodspiller. Decimate predated Quietus. Maybe I'm reading too much into the ordering in "Warrior... feels like a gutted DRK", but the latter seems more the iconic victim of homogenization or the like here.

Granted, if we could go back to 2.0, knowing what we do now of what that first easy step towards capacity --while ignoring means thereto-- would mean for WAR's future homogeneity towards Paladin and, in turn, among all tanks, I think we would have been more cautious in accepting an easy "solution" over one that retains more identity.

Which makes war play ... slow, there's hardly any weaving, War feels slow and not as satisfying.

Agreed, and that slowness feels kind of contrary to its Berserker concept. It feels like Warrior could benefit from a greater sense of momentum, or at the very least some chaos on which to capitalize (without feeling like proc whack-a-mole).

[Lyth]

Momentum isn't too hard to do. Build up a stacking speed and damage buff, and then have a hitstop move that consumes some of your stacks.

But if you want to build unique tanks, you really need narrower concepts for each. It would also be cool if WAR had a jetpack and could teleport and and could shapeshift and could turn undead. But maybe it's fine for them to be the BLM equivalent of tanks and do the slowest but the biggest hits so that we can develop some other unique tank concepts in the future.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

While I do like the back and forth, I'll admit that HS spam is... really dull for those 10 seconds of Req.

As for Confiteor, have it share a button with Req, with a 1-GCDs ICD or so to prevent accidental double-hits that'd instantly end the phase.

Personally I don't mind PLDs Requiescat window, it's only as dull as Wars, Fell Cleave spam or DRKs, Bloodspiller spam. But at least on the optimization side of things, PLD has a lot more freedom with Requiescat, substituting Holy Spirit(s) for Atonement(s) under the right conditions.

Also from optimization stand point, the 1 GCD delay on Requiescat swapping to Confiteor is a terrible suggestion, since it would prevent scenarios like P1 of e11s where, Requiescat come off cooldown just in time to get Confiteor off. Or just in general if you are middle of fight or Flight and Requiescat has just come off cooldown and either, the fight is about to end or any prolonged downtime is coming up, for your last GCD, you can Requiescat into Confiteor which is a significant gain.

[Shurrikhan]

Personally I don't mind PLDs Requiescat window, it's only as dull as War's Fell Cleave spam or DRK's Bloodspiller spam

That's pretty dull then, no? Especially if compared against the likes of 4.1 Inner Release burst window or even 4.3 DRK's Delirium interactions? Theirs degraded since, but that hardly means PLD couldn't benefit from something less spammy.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

That's pretty dull then, no? Especially if compared against the likes of 4.1 Inner Release burst window or even 4.3 DRK's Delirium interactions? Theirs degraded since, but that hardly means PLD couldn't benefit from something less spammy.

Could but how much of a difference would it really make in the long run, as soon as you get used to it, it's gonna be people back here again complaining it just as dull and boring, as if you spammed 3-5 buttons over again. That's the nature of this game, you can come up with some galaxy brain levelled ideas, but if most people can't grasp it, then it's bad by default. Make some big overhaul, then give it time, the same people come back time and time again complaining it's boring, and the majority of those people probably haven't got the fundamentals down for the specific jobs they're complaining about.

Also nice that you ignored the part where I noted with Requiescat, that you have more freedoms with Requiescat, that separates it from Delirium or IR.

And 4.1 WAR was still spamming the one button 6 times in your big window, took work to line it up, but fundamentally it's the same thing, spamming the same GCD.