How fitting

[ninninin]

So having dev answered to your beck and call since 5.2 isn't enough? WAR in this patch is only less than 500 in dps behind GNB but defensive kit is far far FAR superior because the Life Drain and Convalescent it took from DRK and PLD. Warrior do not deserve to have DRK and PLD iconic ability in the first place.

What's Nascent Flash? : https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Blood_Weapon . It's XI DRK Blood Weapon!

Instead of spoil that one tank that want to usurp other tank identity to make themselves god among tank. Dev should make all tank have different identity that expand in different direction. War start with *max hp manipulation, create extra life bar* just make the kit expand from that instead of *I'm gonna take what's good from other tank to give this favorite child of mine*

WAR should be the barrier tank. Like how PLD's theme is block. GNB could take evasion and DRK need what was taken from it back [Life drain and debuff and just return barrier aspect to WAR].

What WAR should get.

[Defensive kit need to be changed so that it won't share life drain style with DRK anymore and in return DRK won't have a barrier]

New AOE to replace Overpower. 150 AOE potency. Targeting change from 8x8 Conal AOE to 10x10 Column AoE.
Why Column aoe is better than Conal AOE? Look at the comparison below.

Conal VS Collumn

Iron Skin =Reduce Damage Taken by 20%. Can target self or ally. Duration 7s. Recast 25s. Available at LV 30.[and remove Raw Intuition]

Inner Beast=Potency Increase to 450

Holmgang=Prevent attack from reduce your hp below 1. Grant Thrill of Battle when HP is reduced to 1. Thrill of battle Effect : Restore 100% of damage taken as hp. Duration 10s. Recast 360s. [Thrill of battle effect would persist even after hp is restored above 1 but will also fade when Holmgang fade]

Steel Cyclone=Potency Increase to 300

Mastering the Beast=Available at LV 45 Along with Steel Cyclone instead of LV 74

Infuriate. Additional Effect : Grant 15 or 30s of Fury. Fury Effect : Increase damage dealt by 10%.

Mythirl Tempest=Extend the effect of Fury by 15 or 30s.

Butcher's Block=Replace Storm Eye. Extend the effect of Fury by 15 or 30s.

Nascent Flash=Restore Hp. Cure Potency=1200. Recast 60s. Available at lv 56 instead of 76

Shake It Off= Available at lv 58 instead of 68. Barrier reduced from 15% to 14%. No longer dispel any other mitigation effects. Barrier created depend on your max hp instead of target's hp.

Decimate=Potency increase to 350

Equilibrium=Creates a barrier that absorbs damage totaling 20% of maximum HP. Restore 20% of maximum hp when barrier is completely absorbed.
Available at LV 68.

Chaotic Cyclone=Potency increase to 450.

[Convalescence return to Paladin and Life Drain return to Dark Knight. Warrior became a tank with strongest Barrier]

[Shurrikhan]

...

We've got a tank with an actual physical barrier (a shield) and another with the best magic barrier (The Blackest Night), but somehow the tank that was once entirely themed around damage->self-healing (2011-2014), and still remains the tank most based around damage->self-healing, should lose its damage->self-healing and become a barrier tank despite having the least barrier theme short of GNB?

You seem more than happy to piss on XIV's own precedent in favor of an altogether separate game, XI. But, maybe, just maybe, people actually play XIV for XIV, and have liked XIV iterations of Warrior? Or will we next be removing Reaper to hand DRK its scythe?

PLD magic phase is...lackluster and doesn't have anything CLOSE to what the other tanks have. Holy spirt can't hold a candle to continuation or Inner Release. It just lacks punch and feels ultimately weak. Confiteor feels ok

While I do like the back and forth, I'll admit that HS spam is... really dull for those 10 seconds of Req.

Heck, when it first came out back in StB, the Req phase actually made me almost wish, well, that either there was no Req phase and PLD instead just had some flexible MP spenders available for when forced away from its target (say, at 2200 MP per cast or so, just short of a fifth consecutive cast) or for rotational alignment.

At this point, though, I kinda wish they'd just go a bit more... Dyssidia WoL vibes with it and make it more augmentative. Have it replace the normal weapon skills, for instance, with something new and more interesting. As for Confiteor, have it share a button with Req, with a 1-GCDs ICD or so to prevent accidental double-hits that'd instantly end the phase.

[Axxion]

We've got a tank with an actual physical barrier (a shield) and another with the best magic barrier (The Blackest Night), but somehow the tank that was once entirely themed around damage->self-healing (2011-2014), and still remains the tank most based around damage->self-healing, should lose its damage->self-healing and become a barrier tank despite having the least barrier theme short of GNB?

You seem more than happy to piss on XIV's own precedent for an altogether separate game, XI. But, maybe, just maybe, people actually play XIV for XIV, and have liked XIV iterations of Warrior? Or will we next be removing Reaper to hand DRK its scythe?

be carefully they are a willy one

[ninninin]

There is no physical barrier and magical barrier. Barrier = Extra HP Bar
Having the least barrier? Thrill=Barrier, Shake=Barrier. The tank that start with Barrier is WAR.
DRK=TBN only. And what's TBN? *A glorified Thrill of Battle* with a way to convert/store mp strap to it.

And NO, XIV is not different game. You just want to treat it that way so you can have convenient excuse to ignore all lore and have any ability/trait you desired. Square Enix and XIV used the loyalty of FF fan to reach this day but betray the fan by follow one cocky man. Yes I have problem with this guy, 8 years has passed and some job gameplay remain suck. In live letter at the beginning of shadbowbringers the very first word that came out of his mouth was "Shadowbringers was a big success!!!". Holy Sh- many job is in terrible state and all he care about is the number of the player. Nin gameplay is horrible,Smn make player hurt their wrist, Rdm have a problem with mp and aoe rotation when it shouldn't, MCH was stressed by double weave, Sam is heavily burdened by double casting time. Ast and Sch don't have enough healing power, DRK have trouble with the party that doesn't have WHM. He doesn't apology nor talk about about his failure at all.

Job's changes have to go through his permission before it could get in the patch and yet he waited 7 years to start playing monk to understand it. Just look at the way he work. He won't hire a director, instead he hold the authority of both producer and director position by himself. He just want to have all the authority but he don't want the responsibility. Maybe in next decade he would start playing tank and healer. Warrior Clone have to happen and stay like that because he was obsessed with berserk manga https://www.pcgamer.com/final-fantas...-unfathomable/ . All this time DRK player have paid the money only to fulfill this guy dream to copy berserk manga. He knew long ago how living dead suck but he refused to change it even when a streamer ask him to change it directly. Our [not your] suffering about Living Dead from all these years came from how stuck up this guy is. Maybe half of us would perish by covid before DRK would be a real Dark Knight that isn't just Dark Knight in name. Oh pardon me I forgot we real DRK player who knew what real DRK is doesn't exist. To you DRK=HW. Haste, Mp slave. clipping animation like mad is the real Dark Knight. [pff HW DRK is just edgy berserker beta]

You can't make all tank be unique by have them share the theme because when the time passed it will overlap and identity crisis will return. Warrior start with max hp manipulation/extra hp bar so make this WAR theme. TBN is tied to SB lore only in name Barrier have nothing to do with DRK. It never been Dark Knight theme and will continue to not be in a FF game that doesn't have WoW influence/ a guy who influence by it. XIV would remain fake Final Fantasy as long as it has wow influence on the job. Do you ever have the idea that DRK doesn't only have life drain in XI before talking to me?

DRK is the opposite of Holy Knight that's why it have debuff/life drain instead of healing self or heal the other/blessing. When life drain was taken from it we see how it weakened. When debuff was made available to every tank we saw how it no longer able to remain unique. Living Dead might be manageable if DRK's life drain is strong but nah let just get obsessed over modified thirll of battle and mistaken it as our identity.

WAR/Berserker used to have haste/proc attack/counter. But it no longer have those ferocity that's one reason why it feel slow when it supposed to have a aggressive/fast/active game play. Vengeance is the remaining track that show how messed up and indecisive XIV is when it come to job identity.

DRK and WAR have a problem because they shared dark knight and berserker trait far too long and it will continue until these 2 jobs return to their origin.

[Shurrikhan]

And what's TBN? *A glorified Thrill of Battle* with a way to convert/store mp strap to it.

The Blackest Night

• 15-second CD.
• Lasts up to 7 seconds.
• Increases eHP by 25%.
• Usable on others.
• Requires a margin of resource be reserved for it.
• Refunds its resource cost if and only if it is fully consumed within 7 seconds.

Thrill of Battle

• 90-second CD
• Lasts 20 seconds.
• Increases eHP by 20%.

They have not a thing in common except that they both increase eHP and have durations.

XIV is not different game.

Yes. It is. XI is over there, still running. If you want something from XI, then show what parts of its choices would necessarily be better than what we have here, instead of supplanting anything and everything in bulk simply because you don't like the last 10 years of identity this game has given to a particular XIV job.

By all means, shit on Yoshi-P's handling of jobs. I'm not about to defend that. But don't pretend that his shortfalls suddenly makes XI's job concept perfect, let alone transferrable to a very different game.

I've played XI WAR. I prefer 5.x Warrior even though it's far worse to me than 4.1 or even 3.x. I've played around on XI DRK, albeit only up to level 77. I prefer 5.x's, even though I again preferred 4.3 or 3.x's. If you want XI transplanted over whatever anyone has enjoyed about an XIV job, again, XI is still live, right over there.

[ninninin]

The Blackest Night

• 15-second CD.
• Lasts up to 7 seconds.
• Increases eHP by 25%.
• Usable on others.
• Requires a margin of resource be reserved for it.
• Refunds its resource cost if and only if it is fully consumed within 7 seconds.

Thrill of Battle

• 90-second CD
• Lasts 20 seconds.
• Increases eHP by 20%.

They have not a thing in common except that they both increase eHP and have durations.

They have everything in common except that you can tbn party member and you can use tbn more in stormblood.

Thrill is 10s. and Thrill in shadowbringers isn't just 20% it have additional effect that increase healing receive by 20% and that make it as strong as tbn. Couple with the fact that DRK don't have self heal on demand like Equilibrium it allow WAR to came out of tank buster with more hp unless it is magical attack.

When it first came out in stormblood TBN is 20% same with Thrill. It just that it can be used more frequently due the fact that you can convert the mp and store it as blood gauge. In term of defensive it is the same with have Thrill on yourself. Citing how "it need to break" make it so much different is like saying you're supposed to waste Thrill on weak attack that won't break it.

Since TBN has been brought up let me tell you why shadowbringers TBN suck= It can only hold 1 Dark Art. So what happen when you need to use 2 tbn before raidbuff came? you gotta let loose 1 EOS outside of raid buff window. Sure, while in theory tbn can be used like 4 times per minute but the more you used it outside of raid buff window the more you lose dps. Great huh?

And since you're here again let me fill you with the fact about "scythe". In XI, scythe isn't exclusive to DRK. DRK can also equip Greatsword in XI. DRK wasn't even the first melee that could equip scythe in FF history. Life Drain ability on the other hand has been with DRK far longer.

Further more, Reaper as showed in the trailer have nothing in common with the real dark knight. DRK iconic ability isn't having a ghost as sidekick and it certainly not edgy berserker that keep spam the same red slash move.

Yes. It is. XI is over there, still running. If you want something from XI, then show what parts of its choices would necessarily be better than what we have here, instead of supplanting anything and everything in bulk simply because you don't like the last 10 years of identity this game has given to a particular XIV job.

By all means, shit on Yoshi-P's handling of jobs. I'm not about to defend that. But don't pretend that his shortfalls suddenly makes XI's job concept perfect, let alone transferrable to a very different game.[/S]
.

When did I claim XI is perfect? XI isn't prefect but at least they manage to make job retain it's identity. XIV on the other hand have a chronic identity problem and imbalance at the same time.

And about the "Just because you prefer". Sorry, I don't believe I was supposed to feel impressed when they serve me a Cola when I paid for a Coffee in a Coffee Shop.

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

so... I read through all three pages, and I guess(?) that the topic of this thread is another Tank identity complaints and suggestions thread, and as such...
I think that I will offer a idea of my own, and see what the rest of you think about it...
I have little to type about Paladin or GunBreaker, though. For the most part, my thoughts were on how to differentiate the means of self-heal and self-support effects, between Warrior and Dark Knight.

any way, that said... how about Warrior has instant heals and increase maximum HP as its focus, such as Equilibrium and Thrill of Battle, and Dark Knight has magical barriers and convert damage dealt into HP as its focus...while, only Paladin has a literal heal spell, along with a pure damage reduction focus, whether the Paladin block attacks, or could even either have more damage reduction abilities than the other tanks, or be able to use damage reduction abilities more often than other tanks.

this makes three of the Tanks have different means of self-heal, instant-heal ability, heal spell, and damage-into-HP conversion, and have different self-support, maximum HP increase(along with instant-heal), magic barriers, and direct damage reduction.
while, the actual way in which this could function as "unique identity", would be either to make all Tanks have 0 abilities, spells, and/or WeaponSkills that do not match their given theme(I think this is a bad idea, but.. eh.), and is along the lines of a different theme, or make it some thing like each Tank has five or some number of actions that match their theme, and only one or two actions that do not match their theme.